Andy Reid vs Tom Landry vs Don Shula

[Brian wolf]

He is tied with Gibbs and also has more conference championships than Gibbs

[lastcat3]

Congraduations, Andy!

This ought to move you past this debate IMO.

Next mountain to try to summit?

Joe Gibbs!

Congrats to Andy. But I would still put Landry and Shula ahead of him. Andy is great play caller but he is essentially running a style of offense Bill Walsh created. Landry was an inventor himself and Shula was able to completely shift his style of offense around in order to keep on winning. And I'm still not impressed at all with these Chiefs teams from a historic standpoint. In every single Super Bowl they have played the opponent seemed to have the better team while they just had the better quarterback. If the NFL wasn't so intent on turning it into such a quarterbacks league than Reid would likely have zero championships. If Shula was playing in this era of football with Dan Marino under his belt who knows how many Super Bowls he would be winning.

[racepug]

I dunno. I just don't think that A.R. is really all that special. Personally, I rate the likes of George Halas, Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, and even Tom Landry WAAAAAAAAY ahead of the likes of Andy Reid and Don Shula. Heck, I'm not even sure I'd rate Andy Reid (or Don Shula) ahead of Chuck Noll, John Madden, Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, or Joe Gibbs.

[lastcat3]

I dunno. I just don't think that A.R. is really all that special. Personally, I rate the likes of George Halas, Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, and even Tom Landry WAAAAAAAAY ahead of the likes of Andy Reid and Don Shula. Heck, I'm not even sure I'd rate Andy Reid (or Don Shula) ahead of Chuck Noll, John Madden, Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, or Joe Gibbs.

It really is difficult to compare as all a head coach needs these days to win championships is a great quarterback (which they usually didn't have much say in getting).

[Brian wolf]

I dunno, lastcat3 ... Reid and the Chiefs grabbed Mahomes when nine other teams passed on him, including Shanahan and the 49ers, who didnt even show up to pre-draft workouts. Reid sat him for a year to try to harness his skills and bad habits and it paid off.

[Jay Z]

Reid is being underrated here fairly significantly.

I said before the game the Chiefs would win and they would outcoach the 49ers. They outcoached the 49ers the last time, outcoached the Eagles, outcoached the 49ers again. I am very impressed by that. Above Landry, no question about it. Shula in the playoffs certainly.

They are winning on strategies and plays they are holding back for special occasions. Mahomes numbers are down significantly. Other than Kelce those receivers are crap, replacement level. About the level of the 1986 Giants. It affects Mahomes' numbers. Apparently Reid is significantly underrated on this board. I'll take up his cause.

[Brian wolf]

Good call on the SB re-run from the comment after the win over Baltimore, Jay Z ... Reid made a great move by not activating Toney for this game, who may have cost them the win. The 49ers had no coverage on the designed Valdez-Scantling and Hardman TDs ...

[CSKreager]

Reid is being underrated here fairly significantly.

I said before the game the Chiefs would win and they would outcoach the 49ers. They outcoached the 49ers the last time, outcoached the Eagles, outcoached the 49ers again. I am very impressed by that. Above Landry, no question about it. Shula in the playoffs certainly.

They are winning on strategies and plays they are holding back for special occasions. Mahomes numbers are down significantly. Other than Kelce those receivers are crap, replacement level. About the level of the 1986 Giants. It affects Mahomes' numbers. Apparently Reid is significantly underrated on this board. I'll take up his cause.

Reid is not underrated…. HE’S OVERRATED

KC wins in spite of Reid, not because of him

Outcoached? He’s still the same guy that was a generational choke artist until Mahomes fell into his lap.

[lastcat3]

Reid is being underrated here fairly significantly.

I said before the game the Chiefs would win and they would outcoach the 49ers. They outcoached the 49ers the last time, outcoached the Eagles, outcoached the 49ers again. I am very impressed by that. Above Landry, no question about it. Shula in the playoffs certainly.

They are winning on strategies and plays they are holding back for special occasions. Mahomes numbers are down significantly. Other than Kelce those receivers are crap, replacement level. About the level of the 1986 Giants. It affects Mahomes' numbers. Apparently Reid is significantly underrated on this board. I'll take up his cause.

Jay Z a lot of people here just don't think as much about the current era of the NFL. In order for many people here to begin putting people like Mahomes or Reid above coaches and players who played in eras where teams were about twice as loaded as they are now and you couldn't just compete for championships if you had a star quarterback and a good play caller they are going to need to do something similar to what Belichick or Brady did (and that is something they are still a long ways off from doing). As of this point they are only about where the Patriots were in 2004 (we all know that after 2004 the Patriots still had about another decade and a half at being at or near the top).

How much the NFL has stacked the deck in the favor of good playcallers and good to great quarterbacks is beyond ridiculous. So much so that players of today shouldn't really even be compared to players and coaches of old unless they do something that most all agree have done something truly unique (such as what the Patriots did). As of this point the Chiefs havn't done anything close to being unique. If they are somehow able to three peat next year (which I really don't think they have a very good shot at doing) then maybe we can begin having a discussion about them doing something unique (but not at all now).

Reid shouldn't even be given credit for this years Super Bowl run as without the defensive improvements the team saw they wouldn't have sniffed the Super Bowl. And Reid doesn't have anything to do with the defense. A coach like Landry was heavily involved in both the offense and defense (and Reid didn't have to compete for championships against a team with more Hall of Famers along their defensive front seven alone than what we saw throughout the entire two rosters of the teams that played last night).

If people want to relish in the greatness of Andy Reid it's probably better to do that in a location that is mainly just focused on the modern era.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Reid is being underrated here fairly significantly.

I said before the game the Chiefs would win and they would outcoach the 49ers. They outcoached the 49ers the last time, outcoached the Eagles, outcoached the 49ers again. I am very impressed by that. Above Landry, no question about it. Shula in the playoffs certainly.

They are winning on strategies and plays they are holding back for special occasions. Mahomes numbers are down significantly. Other than Kelce those receivers are crap, replacement level. About the level of the 1986 Giants. It affects Mahomes' numbers. Apparently Reid is significantly underrated on this board. I'll take up his cause.

Reid is not underrated…. HE’S OVERRATED

KC wins in spite of Reid, not because of him

Outcoached? He’s still the same guy that was a generational choke artist until Mahomes fell into his lap.

I wouldn't be quite that harsh on Reid but totally agree that he's overrated. He stupidly went for the two points without any reason to do so against the Bengals at the end of the first half of the AFC Championship and that stop was the first thing to slide momentum Cincinnati's way.

This year, he stupidly went for it on fourth down instead of kicking a field goal against Baltimore in the first half and it ended up putting Baltimore back in the game. Guys like Walsh, Gibbs, Landry, Shula - that's just laughable to guys like that. They would NEVER entertain the idea of giving the opponent ANY chance to gain any sort of momentum.

Does he win more than other coaches of this time period? Yes. But we're in the age where coaches forgo tying games to go for it on fourth down. The NFC Championship was lost on dumb stuff like that.

Reid coaching against any of these guys mentioned, Noll, Lombardi - I mean, there isn't a comparison IMO. We're in a time period where the most successful coaches are guys like Reid, McCarthy, Kyle Shannahan, even Bruce Arians won a Super Bowl. Those guys are nowhere near the coaching level of the old guard.

Comparisons to Reid - maybe Schottenheimer. Good coach, did a really good job with multiple teams, but he's not Chuck Noll level. Belichick - I'd put him high up there, but Andy Reid? His success is there but - and I don't want to sound like a grumpy old fan - but the level of coaching talent and decision making isn't the same as it was back then. All these head coaches today are assistant level compared with the other guys, IMO.