Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Did the 1935 Lions even have a QB? 1935 Championship Game vs the Giants Glenn Presnell goes 1/2 for 27 yards and Ace Gutowsky 1/3 for 25 yards. Presnell had the most attempted passes for them during that season with 45. Though he threw for 0 td's and 6int's

Cali_Eagle wrote:Just took a quick peek at Pro Football Reference and in 1932 the Bears QB was listed as Keith Molesworth (later to be the 1st HC of the Baltimore Colts.) He had some pretty uninspiring statistics. In 1933 Carl Brumbaugh was listed as the Bears QB and it was the same case. Most of the other early passers were listed as being tailbacks so I didn't count them, but technically I think one is easily justified in doing so. Both Molesworth and Brumbaugh had passing numbers for those seasons and for the careers that were less than impressive. Of course it was an earlier era, and even the league leaders didn't necessarily look all that impressive either.

Molesworth and Brumbaugh were genuine T-formation QBs because the Bears in those years used the Zuppke-Halas-Jones T formation.

rhickok1109 wrote:Molesworth and Brumbaugh were genuine T-formation QBs because the Bears in those years used the Zuppke-Halas-Jones T formation.

Molesworth also played quite a bit of halfback, as his rushing record indicates. I think I've read somewhere, maybe in newspaper articles from that time, that a good many of his passes were thrown when he was lined up at halfback, after Brumbaugh or another QB pitched the ball back to him. But I'm sure sometimes he passed from the QB position, as Brumbaugh did.

Bob Gill wrote: About Keith Molesworth: Over his career he threw 18 TD passes and 19 interceptions. Granted he didn't throw all that much, but for the 1930s that ratio is VERY impressive

Yes, I agree with that... 18 to 19 for 1932 IS very good. Curly Lambeau, first man (known) to have thrown for 1000 yards in a season had only 29 to 79. I was just trying to get over the idea that when one talks about the great championship QB's... (or tailbacks for that matter) Well... No one would ever mention Molesworth or Brumbaugh on that list. At least... no one ever HAS before, lol.

I've seen film of a few games from the Bears at the time and in them, Brumbaugh played T QB, but Molesworth took the snaps as tailback/halfback when Chicago lined up in the single wing. They used both formations at the time. Supposedly, Beattie Feathers worked better out of the SW. Obviously, that's a very small sample size so I am not claiming anything absolute, just what I have seen.

John Maxymuk wrote:I've seen film of a few games from the Bears at the time and in them, Brumbaugh played T QB, but Molesworth took the snaps as tailback/halfback when Chicago lined up in the single wing. They used both formations at the time. Supposedly, Beattie Feathers worked better out of the SW. Obviously, that's a very small sample size so I am not claiming anything absolute, just what I have seen.

Beattie Feathers played in the Single Wing at Tennessee.

The 40s Cardinals had a more modern type offense than one might think. To my knowledge, "Pitchin'" Paul Christman was regarded as one of the top QBs of the day. The 47 and 48 Cards had a good passing offense - the 48 Championship may have turned out differently if Christman were playing. Remember he was part of the Million Dollar Backfield.

Kudos to the person who remembered Brad Johnson was better than he's often given credit. The Vikings sunk a huge amount of money into him, Later traded him for multiple draft picks. He outplayed Gannon in the Super Bowl, and Gannon was an MVP. I'm not a Brad Johnson fan, but he certainly wasn't a dud.

Frank Ryan taught math at Yale after graduating from Rice - incredibly smart guy. Led the NFL in TDs more than once. Threw 3 in the 64 Championship. When King Hill was drafted #1 in the NFL Draft, he said, "I"m not even the best QB on my college team - Frank Ryan is." But the Rice coach (I'm guessing it was still Jess Neely) didn't like Ryan missing football practice for his studies, so he played King Hill.

I don't really have an opinion on "worst" or "least spectacular" - all those guys won more championships than I have, that's for sure. You put me at quarterback for the opposition against him, the other guy's going to win every single time.

sheajets wrote:Did the 1935 Lions even have a QB? 1935 Championship Game vs the Giants Glenn Presnell goes 1/2 for 27 yards and Ace Gutowsky 1/3 for 25 yards. Presnell had the most attempted passes for them during that season with 45. Though he threw for 0 td's and 6int's

That's pretty cool though, isn't it? To win a championship game with that few passes? That's some single-wing football

Potsy Clark felt Glenn Presnell was a better passer than Dutch Clark (I think the great season and passing numbers he put up in '33 when Clark was off coaching basketball supports that). He was definitely playing a diminished role by '35, but I'm glad he got to be a part of things in the title game. Caddel returned the opening kickoff to the '39. On 3rd and 6, Presnell connected on that 27 yarder then on the next play Gutowsky connected on the 25 yarder. I don't think the Giants were expecting them to come out chucking it long downfield given their ground attack and the conditions! With the ball inside the 10, they wound up taking a 7-0 lead on their opening drive which I think was big especially given the bad weather.

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With regard to the '32/'33 Bears, I can see the argument both ways. I don't think either was a QB led team, but they did get pretty good QB play for the era.