Rumblings in the Pantheon
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:36 pm
Every so often I get nominations for the Hall of Very Good from someone who says they use the Rumblings in the Pantheon chapter from the book The Hidden Game of Football as a guide to making their nominations. That makes sense, as Bob Carroll, et al, made a noble attempt in that chapter. For people not familiar with the book, Bob (he told me once he was the one who did all the work on that chapter) charted several hundred players and awarded each of them points based on how many each was first team all-pro, consensus all-pro, second team all-pro, named to the Pro Bowl, etc. The idea was for it to be a guide to the credentials of each for the Hall of Fame.
It was an important undertaking. However, I strongly suggest that people consult a source like Turney and Hogrogian's splendid book on all-pros before rushing to any conclusions. For while extremely helpful, Bob's chapter is full of all kinds of errors. There was a tremendous amount of ground to cover so that maybe was to be expected but some of the errors are egregious and anyone consulting the chapter should be aware of that.
Some are simple errors of multiplication and/or addition. For example, the totals for Lenny Moore as Bob has them add up to 55, not 65 as listed.
Others are miscalculations of how many times a player was all-pro, consensus all-pro, etc. For example, Bob has Del Shofner as a consensus first team all-pro four times. In fact, Shofner was a consensus first teamer five times, as is easy to check (1958, 1959, 1961, 1962 and 1963). So the point total Bob awarded Shofner of 32 is wrong and should actually be 40, which changes where he ranks among wide receivers.
Bob also made mistakes in awarding too many points, sometimes way too many points as with Andy Russell. Bob has Russell as having been a consensus first team all-pro three times when in fact Russell was never a consensus first teamer. That changes his score and where he ranks on the chart dramatically (Bob has Russell with 48 points, I have him with 35). Ditto Lynn Swann, who was a consensus first teamer once, not three times as listed by Bob. That drops Swann's score dramatically from 24 as listed to, by my calculation, 18.
Then there are glaring omissions like Charlie Sanders not even being included on the tight ends chart. I have Sanders with the highest point total of all tight ends at the time the book was published so that's a pretty glaring oversight.
So, yes, the Rumblings in the Pantheon chapter can be helpful. But please, for your own benefit and the integrity of whatever work of your own you may use the charts for, double check first using Turney and Hogrogian (though I've spotted a few errors there as well) because otherwise it might lead to some avoidable embarrassment and the spreading of wrong information.
It was an important undertaking. However, I strongly suggest that people consult a source like Turney and Hogrogian's splendid book on all-pros before rushing to any conclusions. For while extremely helpful, Bob's chapter is full of all kinds of errors. There was a tremendous amount of ground to cover so that maybe was to be expected but some of the errors are egregious and anyone consulting the chapter should be aware of that.
Some are simple errors of multiplication and/or addition. For example, the totals for Lenny Moore as Bob has them add up to 55, not 65 as listed.
Others are miscalculations of how many times a player was all-pro, consensus all-pro, etc. For example, Bob has Del Shofner as a consensus first team all-pro four times. In fact, Shofner was a consensus first teamer five times, as is easy to check (1958, 1959, 1961, 1962 and 1963). So the point total Bob awarded Shofner of 32 is wrong and should actually be 40, which changes where he ranks among wide receivers.
Bob also made mistakes in awarding too many points, sometimes way too many points as with Andy Russell. Bob has Russell as having been a consensus first team all-pro three times when in fact Russell was never a consensus first teamer. That changes his score and where he ranks on the chart dramatically (Bob has Russell with 48 points, I have him with 35). Ditto Lynn Swann, who was a consensus first teamer once, not three times as listed by Bob. That drops Swann's score dramatically from 24 as listed to, by my calculation, 18.
Then there are glaring omissions like Charlie Sanders not even being included on the tight ends chart. I have Sanders with the highest point total of all tight ends at the time the book was published so that's a pretty glaring oversight.
So, yes, the Rumblings in the Pantheon chapter can be helpful. But please, for your own benefit and the integrity of whatever work of your own you may use the charts for, double check first using Turney and Hogrogian (though I've spotted a few errors there as well) because otherwise it might lead to some avoidable embarrassment and the spreading of wrong information.