Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

In lieu of seeing Donnie Shell himself inducting Tony Dungy in last night, it again begs the question...when are both he and LC getting their busts in Canton as well? I know it's been discussed numerous times before - and there are plenty of others with similiar or even more urgent cases still waiting as well - but as for these two, when do you expect? I suspect LC will get in first of the two.

Probably will be quite a while for both, though I think they get in eventually. Greenwood is on an all-decade team, which seemingly counts for something with the HoF voters, while Shell is not, which likely gives the former a leg up.

I think both suffer from the Jerry Kramer syndrome that voters believe there are already enough players from that team inducted. Like Kramer, I believe both will eventually be selected by the Seniors Committee but it could be decades.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:In lieu of seeing Donnie Shell himself inducting Tony Dungy in last night, it again begs the question...when are both he and LC getting their busts in Canton as well? I know it's been discussed numerous times before - and there are plenty of others with similiar or even more urgent cases still waiting as well - but as for these two, when do you expect? I suspect LC will get in first of the two.

Greenwood is interesting in that he was close to getting in, but when looked at closely, it's debatable. He played 13 years, was starter for 11. He was part of msot dominant D of the era. Back in the late-1970s sacks were not offical but by 1978 and 1979 they were part of almost every teams weekly press releases. And it was known he had 9 in 1978 and 7 in 1979. Something like 4.5 in 1976, 1977 2.5, His best seasons were from 1971-75. And even in 1975 it was his play in the playoffs that made that a good year, he had 6 in regular season 4 in SB and a couple in playoffs

he made Pro Bowls in 76, 78 and 79 but not sure he deserved the, He was All-Pro in 1975, but was hobble by that ankle that wasn't well until playoffs. John Dutton and Fred Cook and Credrick Hardman may have been better choices...

His best chance now is to make the Lynn Swann case, big plays in biggest games and Greenwood is that. Only average Super Bowl as XIV, 74, 75 and 78 he was very noticable and had huge impact on those games. Maybe should have been MVP in 74

Greenwood should be in, but at safety, I would put Atwater in before Donnie Shell.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:In lieu of seeing Donnie Shell himself inducting Tony Dungy in last night, it again begs the question...when are both he and LC getting their busts in Canton as well? I know it's been discussed numerous times before - and there are plenty of others with similiar or even more urgent cases still waiting as well - but as for these two, when do you expect? I suspect LC will get in first of the two.

In the case of Shell I believe that it hurts him also that his first four seasons in Pittsburgh he was a backup to Glen Edwards, who was a Pro Bowler back then.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:Greenwood should be in, but at safety, I would put Atwater in before Donnie Shell.

I'd put in a lot of safeties ahead of Shell, including Dillon, Patton, Robinson, Meador, Grayson, Harris, Cherry, Browner, Easley, Atwater, Lynch, Dawkins, Polamalu, and Reed. Shell's after these folks for me.

bachslunch wrote:

7DnBrnc53 wrote:Greenwood should be in, but at safety, I would put Atwater in before Donnie Shell.

I'd put in a lot of safeties ahead of Shell, including Dillon, Patton, Robinson, Meador, Grayson, Harris, Cherry, Browner, Easley, Atwater, Lynch, Dawkins, Polamalu, and Reed. Shell's after these folks for me.

All those safeties you mention are noteworthy. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, but there are a couple things about Shell that are interesting. He is all-time INT leader among SS. And Pro Scout has him ranked very high, they like to say he never had a bad "look" in all his year they saw him, in other words, never had a bad game. They were looking at positioning, coverage, tackling, all the things they grade safeties on. So, to them, anyway he was the prototype strong safety.

Seems to me like Shell's career is comparable to secondarymate Mel Blount's who has already been enshrined in the HOF.

Never.

I think both would set the low bar for their respective positions.

Don't think She'll and Blount were comparable, both were 5/3 PB/AP guys, but Blount 1st team 80's and 75 D POY versus none of the above for Shell. Certainly a little bit of lore around it but a Mel Blount rule doesn't hurt and Blount's peak much more strongly concise with the strength of the Steeler D versus Shell's later peak. Watching on film, Shell looked very HOVG to me, though I would second John's view that he had a knack for being well positioned.

LC was a fine run defender for his size and build, but was really only average here, and his pass rush just wasn't where the best of his era were, pass rush only Hardman, Gregory, Bacon, etc would all rate out higher and I'd probably place him more with Bill Stanfell. He did flash some on film, but boy Joe Greene attracted a lot of attention. His most productive years he was the third best lineman behind Greene and Ernie Holmes, who was a monster for a short window.