2016 AP All-Pro Team

[cdwillis]

Here's the AP All-Pro Team

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -pro-team/

[JohnTurney]

Looks like good team, voting had a few oddities, Aaron Donald got a vote as a DE

[Reaser]

The voting totals are comical, per usual. Of course that's what happens when people who evidently don't watch and/or follow football vote on these things.

At least the media has been hyping up Mack all day for being voted 1st-team at two positions, without realizing and without sharing to the public exactly how that happens.

[JWL]

The voting totals are comical, per usual. Of course that's what happens when people who evidently don't watch and/or follow football vote on these things.

At least the media has been hyping up Mack all day for being voted 1st-team at two positions, without realizing and without sharing to the public exactly how that happens.

The Mack thing is thoroughly ridiculous and I also "love" how it is being reported.

If he truly played two different positions close enough to 50/50, then he should not have gotten any votes. Otherwise, other part time players should get votes. It is like making a 3rd-down-only designated pass rusher a 1st team all pro. I also don't like all pro spots going to guys who played partial seasons like 11 games or less. If Mack truly split his time between two positions, then he essentially played 8 games at DE and 8 games at OLB. I know that is silly but if you base it on snaps, then he probably is nowhere near the snap totals of mere 1-position players.

We had this type of discussion with Justin Smith a few years ago. Is Mack a DE or OLB based on where he lines up or based on what he does after the snap occurs? Would stills before each snap show Mack on the line sometimes with a hand on the ground but other times not and other times way off the line clearly in a linebacker stance?

Understand no matter how somebody may clear this up, it still will not mean Mack truly played two positions like Sammy Baugh playing quarterback and safety or Daniel Murphy playing second base and third base.

[Reaser]

Obviously he had a good season - though way too much is put on one game - so him being an All-Pro isn't an issue, to me.

My problem is that there's 13 players on defense (because of course 'teams' play with 13 players on defense . . . ) and two are named Khalil Mack. He's being made out to be some legend because of this "two positions!" thing and in reality there's multiple players on THIS all-pro team who got more total votes than him (e.g. Watt was unanimous) ... The only difference is that his votes were split between two positions and a voter voted Thomas Davis at ILB and had that vote went to Thomas Davis as an OLB then we're not even talking about Mack as being first-team OLB . . . The voters didn't purposely vote Mack at two positions - as in AP Voter A who never played football in his life and doesn't even know the difference between an ILB and OLB (which evidently many of the voters do not) did not vote for him at DE AND OLB.

[JWL]

I think Mack may have been the third best defensive player in the league this year so he deserves a spot on the team. It is just that the 2-position thing looks wrong. We got to this point due to a bad voting process by the Associated Press. The AP All-Pro teams have been slapstick for a half dozen years now just based on the way the votes have gone. This process needs more uniformity.

[Reaser]

The AP All-Pro teams have been slapstick for a half dozen years now just based on the way the votes have gone.

Exactly. Though obviously it's not just uniformity, it's the voters themselves that are a problem. Shouldn't be too hard to find 50 people that watch enough football to be able to vote players at common sense positions (not talking about Mack, I'm talking about the numerous other DL and LB) and vote for players who had the best seasons instead of panicking and voting for the only name they know at a position (e.g. the yearly Pouncey bro. votes) ...

It's literally laughable to imagine the scenarios in which these people make these votes.

[TodMaher]

The AP All-Pro teams have been slapstick for a half dozen years now just based on the way the votes have gone.

Exactly. Though obviously it's not just uniformity, it's the voters themselves that are a problem. Shouldn't be too hard to find 50 people that watch enough football to be able to vote players at common sense positions (not talking about Mack, I'm talking about the numerous other DL and LB) and vote for players who had the best seasons instead of panicking and voting for the only name they know at a position (e.g. the yearly Pouncey bro. votes) ...

It's literally laughable to imagine the scenarios in which these people make these votes.

Well, the problem is Mack did play two positions this year. He started the first 9 games at RDE, then Aldon Smith (who was playing LLB) was suspended and they moved Mack to that position the rest of year. It was when he was playing LLB he got most of his sacks. Obviously, LLB is Oakland's "designated pass rushing position."
Yes, if the voters knew what they were doing they would voted for him at OLB not DE.

[JWL]

The AP All-Pro teams have been slapstick for a half dozen years now just based on the way the votes have gone.

Exactly. Though obviously it's not just uniformity, it's the voters themselves that are a problem. Shouldn't be too hard to find 50 people that watch enough football to be able to vote players at common sense positions (not talking about Mack, I'm talking about the numerous other DL and LB) and vote for players who had the best seasons instead of panicking and voting for the only name they know at a position (e.g. the yearly Pouncey bro. votes) ...

It's literally laughable to imagine the scenarios in which these people make these votes.

Well, the problem is Mack did play two positions this year. He started the first 9 games at RDE, then Aldon Smith (who was playing LLB) was suspended and they moved Mack to that position the rest of year. It was when he was playing LLB he got most of his sacks. Obviously, LLB is Oakland's "designated pass rushing position."
Yes, if the voters knew what they were doing they would voted for him at OLB not DE.

Reaser had emailed me that Mack did play two positions.
This is tough because if it was a true 9/7 games split, then he maybe should not have garnered any votes. It is like a guy being selected 1st team guard after playing in only 8 games.

If it is about simply picking the top 11 defenders, then Mack deserves to be on the team. But if the idea is to pick the best player at each position, then playing 12 games (75% of the season) seems a fair requirement to me.



But, is RDE and LLB in Oakland's defense all that different anyway? I am asking because I don't know. I didn't see enough Raiders action this year to say.

[Reaser]

Well, the problem is Mack did play two positions this year.

Yes, he played more snaps at DE though. I don't have an issue with him being voted at DE or OLB (he played both, and it's close enough to say roughly 50/50), I was talking about the OLB's they voted at ILB and the DT's they voted as DE, there's a bunch of them - including the Thomas Davis vote at ILB which if that one voter had voted for Davis at OLB instead of ILB then Mack wouldn't be on the 'team' twice.

There's different and easy solutions for where to vote a player. Before getting to those possible solutions you first have to find voters that know the difference between a DE and DT and an ILB and OLB. In other words, find 50 people who watch and follow football.