Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

credited often to Twain but never confirmed.

NWebster wrote:So at the risk . . . I don't think you have a problem with stats, you have a problem with idiots using stats.

Exactly. How stats are used, stats with no context, etc ...

Interesting...

http://www.footballperspective.com/grea ... wds-recap/

ChrisBabcock wrote:Interesting...

http://www.footballperspective.com/grea ... wds-recap/

I'm going to piggy back on OCC and offer the second Twain quote in this thread:

"The public is the only critic whose opinion is worth anything at all."

oldecapecod 11 wrote:"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

credited often to Twain but never confirmed.

I believe the actual source of that quote was Benjamin Disraeli.

The point of it is wrong, anyway. As Nick pointed out, the problem is not the statistics themselves; it's people using them incorrectly, whether they're trying to deceive or just don't know what they're doing.

That comment section is great.

re: Graham's time in AAFC: "padded his stats playing against JV teams"

"didn't vote for Layne because of stats"

and of course most arguments came down to using stats - across eras . . .

Bob Gill wrote:

oldecapecod 11 wrote:"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

credited often to Twain but never confirmed.

I believe the actual source of that quote was Benjamin Disraeli.

The point of it is wrong, anyway. As Nick pointed out, the problem is not the statistics themselves; it's people using them incorrectly, whether they're trying to deceive or just don't know what they're doing.

Stats are a product, not the cause. Used correctly or incorrectly, they can only clumsily explain what happened and why.

Veeshik_ya wrote:Stats are a product, not the cause. Used correctly or incorrectly, they can only clumsily explain what happened and why.

That's probably the closest to accurate (in my opinion) that I've seen "stats" put.

I would add some qualifiers, and some "winning" stats, but that's stuff that comes within trying to win games or have success. Essentially a 'goal' before the game, and an explanation after the game.

Veeshik_ya wrote:Stats are a product, not the cause. Used correctly or incorrectly, they can only clumsily explain what happened and why.

Well, nobody said statistics EXPLAIN things. They just count things, or average things, or whatever.

To stay with football, take a simple running play. Alfred Morris carries the ball and gains 9 yards. What do the stats show? One carry for Morris, 9 yards gained. That is an absolutely true statement. Now, it may be that the key to the play was a great fake by the quarterback, or a great block by one of the linemen, so in that sense the numbers don't EXPLAIN the play; but nobody ever said they did.

Now, it's true that many people misunderstand stats, and one way they do that is to think the issue starts and ends with the numbers. That leads them, let's say, to assume the running back who plays behind the best line in football is the best running back, or to think that the receivers who play with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady are better than they really are. But that's not a problem with the stats themselves; it's a problem with the people who try to read more into them than is justified.

Similarly, the stats say all kinds of run-of-the-mill quarterbacks today throw for more yardage in a season and a career than Sammy Baugh or Sid Luckman or Otto Graham, and I'm sure many people jump to the conclusion that all modern QBs are thus better than the old guys. But that's because they don't understand what the numbers mean. (And they probably won't get much help in that direction if they only listen to talking heads on ESPN and the like.)

To repeat, statistics DON'T lie; but people often misunderstand them and come to mistaken conclusions as a result.

Bob Gill » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:32 pm
oldecapecod 11 wrote:
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
credited often to Twain but never confirmed.
"I believe the actual source of that quote was Benjamin Disraeli.
The point of it is wrong, anyway. As Nick pointed out, the problem is not the statistics themselves; it's people using them incorrectly, whether they're trying to deceive or just don't know what they're doing."

Actually, that is another misconception as is the fact that Victoria first sang Disraeli, Won't You Please Come Home.
The point is that infatuation with statistics is the result of production by logistics.
You can't count the beans if someone doesn't grow them.