Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

URBAN Meyer (and Frank Kush just mentioned)?

Well how about RON Meyer (who got himself fired by firing Kush after that Patriots' 5-3 start in '84; only for Berry to bring Frank right back in)?

Ron Meyer college-HC'd UNLV for three years. All of them were winning seasons with feather-in-cap going 12-1 in '74!

Then he goes to SMU where, after suffering a few losing seasons, "sets the table" for what its worth (key phrase...for what it's worth) the Mustangs' close-to-National Championship undefeated (but one tie) 1982 campaign!

In the NFL, he led NE and then Indy to the playoffs one time each albeit each berth in a strike season (NE '82, Indy '87). But did finish above-500 total with each team if however quite barely (with NE, 18-15; with Indy, 36-35). He took over a 2-14 Pats team and made them 5-4 in '82; took over 0-13 Colts end of '86 - won final three - then led them to that 9-6 division title the following year. Yes, another strike year (2-1 in scab games) and he did acquire Dickerson (of course an SMU reunion between the two), but a quite unspectacular QB-committee at his disposal yet down-the-stretch did wallop playoff-bound Oilers, 51-27, followed by a road-win at AFCC-returner-to-be, Cleveland.

You're never in it just to be..."not bad", but that very description is the very least that he was in his NFL time. A lot better than most HCs in NFL history can say (controversial rep or not). But, no, had Noll retired anytime during the '80s, I would have rather not had Meyer take his place! Just saying though. He wasn't..."bad".

Bryan wrote:One guy who I forgot to mention was Frank Kush. He coached forever at Arizona State, was notoriously abusive to his players, and was fired after investigation into numerous violations. I don't know how Kush got an NFL HC position, but not surprised that it was Bob Irsay that hired him. Kush lasted nearly 3 seasons, with his teams routinely finishing at the bottom of both offensive and defensive statistics, having a 'defeated' season in 1982, and having John Elway not signing because of not wanting to play for Kush.

Bob Irsay considered Frank Kush for the Colts head coaching position in 1980 before deciding on Mike McCormick. Kush got his big break when Harold Ballard hired him to coach the CFL's Hamilton Tiger-Cats in December 1980. Hamilton had just gotten blown out by Warren Moon and the Edmonton Eskimos in the 1980 Grey Cup, 48-10. Ballard wanted tougher players and believed Kush was the right man for the job:

https://youtu.be/yjeloPOLMHc

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1980/12/17 ... 345877200/

The 1981 Tiger-Cats finished first in the Eastern Division with an 11-4-1 record but were upset by Ottawa in the East Final, 17-13. There were rumblings by the Hamilton players about Kush's training methods during the season. He'd signed a 3 year deal but I'm not sure that he would have had continued success there.

Bryan wrote:

sheajets wrote:Walsh was an NFL assistant for something like a decade before getting his first head coaching gig in college...so yes he was a college to pros head coach but I don't think he was ever viewed as one of those dyed in the wool college guy having to make a tough transition. Walsh was well acquainted with the NFL when he returned in 1979.

That is my opinion as well. I don't view guys like Walsh and Dick Vermiel as being established 'name' college coaches making the jump to the NFL. One guy who I forgot to mention was Frank Kush. He coached forever at Arizona State, was notoriously abusive to his players, and was fired after investigation into numerous violations. I don't know how Kush got an NFL HC position, but not surprised that it was Bob Irsay that hired him. Kush lasted nearly 3 seasons, with his teams routinely finishing at the bottom of both offensive and defensive statistics, having a 'defeated' season in 1982, and having John Elway not signing because of not wanting to play for Kush.

Obviously Frank Kush grew up in a different era. My only memory of Frank Kush is of him being caught punching his punter on the sideline at Husky Stadium (University of Washington) in, I think, 1979. Maybe that was something he could've gotten away with 10, 20 years earlier, but in 1979 that didn't go over well.

Clark Shaughnessy won 150 games at the college level, including the 1940 national championship with Stanford and two conference titles (1920, 1925) with Tulane.

Coaching just two NFL seasons with the LA Rams, he led the team to the 1949 NFL title game, a loss to the Eagles. Shaughnessy was 14-7-3 as an NFL coach.

racepug wrote:Jimmy Johnson - one of very few I can think of off the top of my head who won (national and league) championships at both the college and pro levels. I'm not sure how much of a strategist or tactician he was ever considered to be, though.

Nick Saban - He was a flop in the N.F.L. My recollection is that he basically told MIA to pound sand before he made his way back to the college game.

Pete Carroll - another who (obviously) won at both the collegiate and N.F.L. level. But I think his "schtick" is losing effectiveness in Seattle.

Pete Carroll built winning teams at Southern Cal. No argument. But his inattention to the program's off the field stuff resulted in a very long NCAA penalty. Once the program was penalized, Carroll ran off to the NFL.

Lee Elder wrote:Pete Carroll built winning teams at Southern Cal. No argument. But his inattention to the program's off the field stuff resulted in a very long NCAA penalty. Once the program was penalized, Carroll ran off to the NFL.

That would appear to be the case but I believe it's been shown in the interim that the NCAA is nothing more than a bloated, ineffective, and corrupt organization in its own right.

John Ralston got the Denver job in 1972 after having beaten both Michigan and Ohio State in the Rose Bowl as HC at Stanford.

Ray Perkins left his "dream job" at Alabama (replacing the Bear) so that he could flop with the Bucs.

Darryl Rogers went to the Lions after five years at Arizona State (having previously coached at Michigan State)

Butch Davis went from The U to the Browns and could seemingly only draft guys he had previously recruited.

BD Sullivan wrote:John Ralston got the Denver job in 1972 after having beaten both Michigan and Ohio State in the Rose Bowl as HC at Stanford.

Butch Davis went from The U to the Browns and could seemingly only draft guys he had previously recruited.

Hiring Ralston was a bullet dodged. They were looking at the inept Bill Peterson at that time as well. He would have set that organization back.

As for Davis, he made a huge mistake. The U would have had a 2000's dynasty to go along with their 80's one if he stayed.