Thoughts on Brett Favre

[Jay Z]

I don't know of any Packer fan that bears ill will towards Favre today. 2010 Super Bowl win took care of that. The ending of the 2009 NFC Championship game didn't hurt either.

The Favre ending in Green Bay was unique, I'd say. The closest thing I can think of is when the Raiders traded Stabler three years after winning a Super Bowl. But they'd won with Lamonica as well as Stabler, and hadn't gotten to the playoffs in the two years prior to the trade.

Favre was coming off the NFC Championship game. The repeated retirement talk was a strange situation, and Favre instigated a lot of that. There were also issues with Favre not wanting to put in the film study the McCarthy team were demanding.

[Bryan]

Favre won 3 straight MVPs throwing to some pretty average WRs. His "comeback" season in 2009 with the Vikings was truly remarkable...almost a unique achievement in NFL history. Has a QB ever led the NFL in INTs one year, then the next year lead the NFL with the lowest INT%?

I think his reputation took a big hit from his inconsistent play later in his career...the INT heave against the Giants in the NFC Championship game was especially galling. It seems like Favre's durability and longevity has hurt him, whereas the norm in the NFL is that a guy who tacks on a few seasons at the end of his career will get into Canton (Harry Carson & Marcus Allen) while someone who retires 'early' doesn't get much consideration (Randy Gradishar & Terrell Davis). I don't know if either line of thinking is all that "correct"...its just something I find interesting.

In a certain sense, I think Favre the player is underrated. A win against the Broncos in the Super Bowl or a win with the Vikings in the Super Bowl might have secured him "Mt Rushmore" status, but as it stands it seems like Favre is put into the second-tier of eliteness. I don't know if thats fair, because I doubt many other elite QBs could have achieved what Favre did in his career for as long as he did.

Two things that stand out to me with Favre are:
1) He made Bill Schroeder a 1000-yard WR in the NFL
2) His 'mistress' looked exactly like his wife when his wife was 20 years younger. Does that make the affair "better" or "worse"?

[Ronfitch]

Favre won 3 straight MVPs throwing to some pretty average WRs. His "comeback" season in 2009 with the Vikings was truly remarkable...almost a unique achievement in NFL history. Has a QB ever led the NFL in INTs one year, then the next year lead the NFL with the lowest INT%?

I think his reputation took a big hit from his inconsistent play later in his career...the INT heave against the Giants in the NFC Championship game was especially galling. It seems like Favre's durability and longevity has hurt him, whereas the norm in the NFL is that a guy who tacks on a few seasons at the end of his career will get into Canton (Harry Carson & Marcus Allen) while someone who retires 'early' doesn't get much consideration (Randy Gradishar & Terrell Davis). I don't know if either line of thinking is all that "correct"...its just something I find interesting.

In a certain sense, I think Favre the player is underrated. A win against the Broncos in the Super Bowl or a win with the Vikings in the Super Bowl might have secured him "Mt Rushmore" status, but as it stands it seems like Favre is put into the second-tier of eliteness. I don't know if thats fair, because I doubt many other elite QBs could have achieved what Favre did in his career for as long as he did.

Two things that stand out to me with Favre are:
1) He made Bill Schroeder a 1000-yard WR in the NFL
2) His 'mistress' looked exactly like his wife when his wife was 20 years younger. Does that make the affair "better" or "worse"?

WRs included Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks, Don Beebe and Andre Rison and TEs included Keith Jackson and Mark Chumra during those MVP years. While having Favre as QB (and frankly, having lost Sterling Sharpe as his go-to WR in '95 made Favre even better, IMO) certainly helped them ... "average" WRs might be a stretch among the starters in the two-WR set for '95-'96-'97.

As for "almost a unique achievement in NFL history," I am not sure. Both Plunkett and Williams had successful stints leading second teams to NFL championships late in their careers. In '08, Warner took a second team to a SB, as did Peyton Manning in 2013. To a lesser degree, Kerry Collins and Rich Gannon. With careers going longer, FA the money involved in the NFL, we might see more of it as teams cast off a solid but greying QB with a big contract.

Schroder's 1,000-yard year ... plus another nearly-1,000-yard year (999 yards in 2000, 918 in 14 games in 2001) .... yeah, that was a whole lot of Favre. As was the great run for GB in '95 - '98. Those were magical years for Packer fans, especially those who came on in the early '70s (just good timing).

Just my thoughts.

[BD Sullivan]

whereas the norm in the NFL is that a guy who tacks on a few seasons at the end of his career will get into Canton (Harry Carson & Marcus Allen) while someone who retires 'early' doesn't get much consideration (Randy Gradishar & Terrell Davis).

It's not as if Carson glided into the HOF on the first try. He first became eligible in 1994, but wasn't elected until 2006.

[Bryan]

WRs included Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks, Don Beebe and Andre Rison and TEs included Keith Jackson and Mark Chumra during those MVP years. While having Favre as QB (and frankly, having lost Sterling Sharpe as his go-to WR in '95 made Favre even better, IMO) certainly helped them ... "average" WRs might be a stretch among the starters in the two-WR set for '95-'96-'97.

Yeah, they were included, but they were never all healthy/active at the same time. Brooks missed much of 1996. Beebe was added to the team in 1996 and had 2 receptions in 1997. Jackson wasn't on the team in 1997. Freeman had all of 8 receptions in 1995. From 1995-97, Rison had 13 receptions for 135 yards and 1 TD. It was nice that the Packers were able to find competent replacements at WR, but its not like any of those guys made the Pro Bowl. The best thing Favre had going for him was the 2TE combo of Chumra and Jackson in 96. It seemed like Favre played at an MVP level despite the revolving door at WR.

As for "almost a unique achievement in NFL history," I am not sure. Both Plunkett and Williams had successful stints leading second teams to NFL championships late in their careers. In '08, Warner took a second team to a SB, as did Peyton Manning in 2013. To a lesser degree, Kerry Collins and Rich Gannon. With careers going longer, FA the money involved in the NFL, we might see more of it as teams cast off a solid but greying QB with a big contract.

Williams started 2 regular season games for the 1987 Skins and was 32. Plunkett was 33 in 1980. I think it will be pretty rare for a QB to have a comeback season at age 40. Peyton Manning's comeback is probably the closest thing, but he wasn't really coming back from ineffectiveness, just injury.

[rhickok1109]

The best receiver Favre had after Sharpe's forced retirement was Rison, and he only had Rison for 5 games plus the playoffs.

Antonio Freeman was a star with Favre throwing to him but when he jumped to the Eagles for more money, Freeman couldn't beat out James Thrash and Todd Pinkston for a starting spot.

[Ronfitch]

WRs included Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks, Don Beebe and Andre Rison and TEs included Keith Jackson and Mark Chumra during those MVP years. While having Favre as QB (and frankly, having lost Sterling Sharpe as his go-to WR in '95 made Favre even better, IMO) certainly helped them ... "average" WRs might be a stretch among the starters in the two-WR set for '95-'96-'97.

Yeah, they were included, but they were never all healthy/active at the same time. Brooks missed much of 1996. Beebe was added to the team in 1996 and had 2 receptions in 1997. Jackson wasn't on the team in 1997. Freeman had all of 8 receptions in 1995. From 1995-97, Rison had 13 receptions for 135 yards and 1 TD. It was nice that the Packers were able to find competent replacements at WR, but its not like any of those guys made the Pro Bowl. The best thing Favre had going for him was the 2TE combo of Chumra and Jackson in 96. It seemed like Favre played at an MVP level despite the revolving door at WR.

Revolving, yes. But I still disagree with "average." Behind the top two each season, perhaps less-than-average (Anthony Morgan, Terry Mickens, Derrick Mayes and Schroeder come to mind).

Brooks was a top receiver in the conference in '95 and doing well in '96 until the 49er game on Monday night. When he went down, Beebe - a very good number two on a team that went to four SBs in Buffalo - stepped up. Jackson was just a great pass-catching TE, established in Miami. For the brief time he was there, Rison was above average. Freeman's decline came well after the '97 season season.

As for "almost a unique achievement in NFL history," I am not sure. Both Plunkett and Williams had successful stints leading second teams to NFL championships late in their careers. In '08, Warner took a second team to a SB, as did Peyton Manning in 2013. To a lesser degree, Kerry Collins and Rich Gannon. With careers going longer, FA the money involved in the NFL, we might see more of it as teams cast off a solid but greying QB with a big contract.

Williams started 2 regular season games for the 1987 Skins and was 32. Plunkett was 33 in 1980. I think it will be pretty rare for a QB to have a comeback season at age 40. Peyton Manning's comeback is probably the closest thing, but he wasn't really coming back from ineffectiveness, just injury.

I was thinking only in terms of coming back later in career with a different team rather than age. Warner might fit both criteria (injury and age, plus being on a team which drafted the Heisman winning QB). And I certainly didn't think Favre was ineffective in later years with GB. With the Jets, was he ineffective or was it more the Jets as a whole (honestly, I did not see much of the Jets during that time).

[conace21]

Favre was having a fine season with the Jets until his arm injury. He had a career high six TD passes against Arizona.

[Reaser]

Favre was having a fine season with the Jets until his arm injury. He had a career high six TD passes against Arizona.

Yup, people were talking Jets Super Bowl up until then, too.

That's what was funny about the end of his career. 'Fans' and 'experts' would say he was done and should retire ... then he leads GB to NFC Championship game. Then they said he was done and should retire and he and the Jets were the mid-season SB favorite until his injury. Then they said he was done and should retire, and Vikings goto NFC Championship and he has one of his best years. Then they said he was done and should retire and he finally was done, and then those people ignore all the years they were wrong and act like they were right all along.

[SixtiesFan]

Favre was having a fine season with the Jets until his arm injury. He had a career high six TD passes against Arizona.

Yup, people were talking Jets Super Bowl up until then, too.

That's what was funny about the end of his career. 'Fans' and 'experts' would say he was done and should retire ... then he leads GB to NFC Championship game. Then they said he was done and should retire and he and the Jets were the mid-season SB favorite until his injury. Then they said he was done and should retire, and Vikings goto NFC Championship and he has one of his best years. Then they said he was done and should retire and he finally was done, and then those people ignore all the years they were wrong and act like they were right all along.

Sportswriters were asking Favre "When are you going to retire" when he was 34-35 years old.