Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

bachslunch wrote:

Ness wrote: Oh and Morten Anderson? Career 79% kicking percentage. Missing every 5th kick now would get you cut in the NFL. Maybe it was a different era for kickers in his time, whatever.

You're right, it was a different time. Adjusted for era, Andersen is among the five best all time in FG percentage. And at least Andersen will finally join Stenerud and Groza in, who are also among that group. Sad to say, we'll probably never say the same for the other two, Gary Anderson and Nick Lowery.

In 26 years in the NFL Anderson finished in the top 5 in field goal scoring five times. That is it. He finished outside the top ten about 15 times. Maybe Mike Vanderjagt has a chance now.

Throwin_Samoan wrote:

Ness wrote:How did he hurt his team when he was putting up All Pro numbers every single season?

Fun Fact: He was first-team All-Pro five times in fifteen seasons.

Meanwhile you got Favre in on first ballot who is maybe a top 10 QB of all time. But he held the Packers hostage for three years about, threw a ton of interceptions in big games, had a drug problem, and was embroiled in off the field controversy like sending pictures of a his junk to a female reporter. But oh, let him in the HOF because "I'd have a beer with that guy".

Also fun fact: Favre's not in because people would have a beer with him. He's in because he owned nearly every passing record at the time he retired. Hard to make the case otherwise.

LIke I said, the HOF is beyond ridiculous at this point. Oh and Morten Anderson? Career 79% kicking percentage. Missing every 5th kick now would get you cut in the NFL. Maybe it was a different era for kickers in his time, whatever.

Oh, maybe. He was more accurate than the league average (to which he contributed, obviously) in 20 of his 25 seasons. He made about 28 more field goals than an average kicker would have over his career, given the league average.

The NFL average for field goal accuracy has been rising steadily for the last 60 years, and it hit 84.5% in 2015. That doesn't mean you get to apply those standards to players of the past. Unless we think Justin Tucker is suddenly the greatest kicker of all time after five years. Andersen hit over 80% nine of his last 10 years (including, oh, by the way, going 25-for-28 at age 47).

By the time he retired, there were 23 more accurate guys ahead of him, but he's not in the Hall of Fame solely because of accuracy. He kicked for more years, kicked more field goals (565) and scored more points (2,544) than anyone in league history. And at the time he retired, he had 40 field goals of 50+ yards, which was tops in history.

Hard not to put him in, especially when specialists are under-represented in Canton.

Boo-frigging-hoo on Terrell Owens.

I said All Pro numbers. Just because he wasn't selected to an All Pro team in some of his seasons doesn't mean he didn't put up numbers that could have gotten him elected. Moss was first team All Pro in 14 seasons. Harrison was first team All Pro 3 times in 13 seasons. Doesn't negate from the notion that they were putting up All Pro numbers nearly every year.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Favre has always been a media darling. Which does help your HOF chances even though your relationship with the media as a player should be irrelevant. Owens is 2nd in receiving yards, 3rd in touchdowns, and 8th in receptions while playing for like 5 teams. He's one of the best of his position in the modern era. Probably top five. Favre in the modern era would be lucky to be 10th on most lists. The media has always had a Favre fetish and to deny that is just being blind. I still remember Favre-copter-cam on Sportscenter literally following him everywhere. It was ridiculous.

As for Anderosn, he did play indoors 57% of the time, and was only 62% beyond 40 yards.

By the way not saying he wasn't a stat compiler/played forever. If anything he should have waited longer to be enshrined I think.

Yup, boo-hoo on Owens. Guessing you had a vote? Because he should have been in unless you had a personal axe to grind. Apparently he didn't even make the top ten this year which is beyond retarded.

Oh and Warner? Just...no. Guy seems like a nice, good guy. But I think he got in partly because of his story of going from rags to riches, being nice, and also now working within the media to a large capacity. He had three great years from 1999-2001. Then he messed up his hand, played awful in 2002. Marc Bulger replaces him full time by 2003. Warner then goes on to have five straight lackluster seasons of football before finally rebounding in 2007 to 2009. Warner was at a point in his career where he was fighting for a starting job with Matt Leinart, whom the Cardinals had drafted one year after signing Warner.

Ness wrote:

bachslunch wrote:

Ness wrote: Oh and Morten Anderson? Career 79% kicking percentage. Missing every 5th kick now would get you cut in the NFL. Maybe it was a different era for kickers in his time, whatever.

You're right, it was a different time. Adjusted for era, Andersen is among the five best all time in FG percentage. And at least Andersen will finally join Stenerud and Groza in, who are also among that group. Sad to say, we'll probably never say the same for the other two, Gary Anderson and Nick Lowery.

In 26 years in the NFL Anderson finished in the top 5 in field goal scoring five times. That is it. He finished outside the top ten about 15 times. Maybe Mike Vanderjagt has a chance now.

The PFR website says seven times in number of FG made:

1985, 2nd
1986, 3rd
1987, 1st
1988, 5th
1992, 3rd
1994, 4th
1995, 2nd

Besides, it's accuracy I was talking about.

rebelx24 wrote:Glad to see both Easley and Davis making it in in the same class, with Stanfel of course getting in a year ago. Those three guys, if I'm not mistaken, are the entirety of the 7-years-and-under modern era career length contingent elected since Doak Walker in the mid-'80's. Gives me hope for players like Sterling Sharpe someday . Not to mention Tony Boselli and Patrick Willis, who only played 8 seasons, and Priest Holmes, arguably a quasi-short career guy due to all the injuries.

Hopefully, Mac Speedie will now be considered since length of career is no longer a detriment.

Speedie: 86 Games Played
Davis: 78 Games Played
Easley: 89 Games Played
Stanfel: 73 Games Played

Ness wrote:Oh and Warner? Just...no. Guy seems like a nice, good guy. But I think he got in partly because of his story of going from rags to riches, being nice, and also now working within the media to a large capacity. He had three great years from 1999-2001. Then he messed up his hand, played awful in 2002. Marc Bulger replaces him full time by 2003. Warner then goes on to have five straight lackluster seasons of football before finally rebounding in 2007 to 2009. Warner was at a point in his career where he was fighting for a starting job with Matt Leinart, whom the Cardinals had drafted one year after signing Warner.

There is the doughnut in Warner's career from 02-06, that is undeniable, and his career was also short because he was 28 before he got the starting job in St. Louis, however:

-He led one of the most diverse and prolific offenses in pro football history,
-He had (at the time) two of the greatest passing seasons ever, which still 15 years later still look really impressive
-He was a 2 time NFL MVP. A list of all other players who have won multiple AP NFL MVP's - Peyton Manning (5), Brett Favre (3), Steve Young (2), Joe Montana (2), Steve Young (2), Aaron Rodgers (2).
-He took two franchises who had been perennially weak (the Rams from 1990-1998 and the Cardinals from seemingly forever to 2007) and turned them into Cinderella teams who made the Super Bowl.
-He played in three Super Bowls, and the three names at the top of the list of most yards passing in a Super Bowl are Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner, and Kurt Warner.
-He won one of the three Super Bowls, lost the other two in the final minute of the game.
-Four Pro Bowls, two time first team All-Pro.
-9-4 record as a starter in the postseason, with a 31-14 TD-INT ratio.

Warner played 11 years in the NFL, and he had six full-time seasons. In those six seasons (99-01, 07-09), he accomplished the above. I think at his peak (99, 01, 08), he was one of the ten best QB's ever. He is a deserving Hall of Famer.

So happy for Warner. The only reason the voting pundits made him wait was to prove they were right for being so wrong about him.

In yet another issue, looks like they've managed to screw up the Contributor slot now as well as the Seniors. It's just a mess all around:

-Nobody seems able to recognize a good candidate from a bad one with any reliability on the nominating committees. Regarding the Contributors, neither Tagliabue nor DeBartolo were especially good options compared to Steve Sabol, Bobby Beathard, Gil Brandt, George Young, or Art McNally.

-There seems to be a real problem conveying cases in the room convincingly enough to get these folks elected.

-Regardless, it seems far too easy for a small group of voters to thwart these candidacies.

The slots wasted between voting down Tagliabue, Humphrey, and Stanfel could have gotten in (for example) Robinson, Howley, and Sabol.

Both nominating committees really need to be made up of real historians, and they need to direct-elect these folks, bypassing the regular candidate committee. Failing that, here's another modest proposal:

-Have the current committees nominate a slate of candidates, say 10 for the Seniors and 5 for the Contributors. Add the available coaches to the Contributor category to make it more competitive.

-Have the slates presented to the voters and require them to rank all nominees numerically from best to worst.

-Have the best two Seniors and best Contributor elected regardless of what percentage they achieve.

Regarding the TO candidacy, how many current HOFers have had the term "clubhouse cancer" applied to them?

BD Sullivan wrote:Regarding the TO candidacy, how many current HOFers have had the term "clubhouse cancer" applied to them?

I can't think of one. I can think of a couple HOF baseball players though.