Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

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Thank you, John!

Oddly enough (and FYI) I searched your site for "Tuggle" before posting and nothing came up...
Oh well, as long as we can read it now... Again, Thank You!

JohnTurney wrote:and not coach's totals
Harry Carson, 206, 1978
Randy Gradishar, 197, 1978
Chris Spielman, 195, 1994

all the other numbers you see are coaches numbers---which have generous
"assist" totals that make the numbers much higher

You're the man, John! So the tally is all of one. Wagner can enter truly historic company.

I wonder why PFR accepts those tallies for Tuggle if it doesn't list similar coaches' tallies for most other players? I assume that one season from Nickerson is the same deal. I would think they'd have higher standards...

JameisLoseston wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:and not coach's totals
Harry Carson, 206, 1978
Randy Gradishar, 197, 1978
Chris Spielman, 195, 1994

all the other numbers you see are coaches numbers---which have generous
"assist" totals that make the numbers much higher

You're the man, John! So the tally is all of one. Wagner can enter truly historic company.

I wonder why PFR accepts those tallies for Tuggle if it doesn't list similar coaches' tallies for most other players? I assume that one season from Nickerson is the same deal. I would think they'd have higher standards...

eventually PFR will be using play by play tackles and getting rid of "coaching numbers" maybe in a year
so there will be a apple to apples comparison from team to team

Still, as we know there are differences in scorekeepers from city to city--and the problem with tackles
in general--but if the NFl is going to post them now, no reason to not post what was in the gamebooks before

But here is a scenario
1-10, runner gains a yard, tackle by lamber
2-10, pass, incomplete
3-10, sack by greenwood

1 tackle great defense

bend but don't break drive say
5 runs (5 tackles, maybe 5-6 assists)
4 passes, maybe 3 complete) mabye 3 solot, 1 assist

bot good defense

so it goes

1978 NYG Carson, Harry 206
1976 Phil Bergey, Bill 200
1978 Den Gradishar, Randy 197
1994 Det Spielman, Chris 195
1978 Balt Simonini, Ed 192
1976 Mia Towle, Steve 187

JohnTurney wrote:1978 NYG Carson, Harry 206
1976 Phil Bergey, Bill 200
1978 Den Gradishar, Randy 197
1994 Det Spielman, Chris 195
1978 Balt Simonini, Ed 192
1976 Mia Towle, Steve 187

Wow, 200 in 14 games

I think a high tackle quantity is an indicator that a defense is on the field for a while. Maybe more so than they should be. Not to take anything away from Wagner. Tommy Nobis had 294 tackles in a season and most of the Falcons' teams he was a part of were HORRID.

sluggermatt15 wrote:I think a high tackle quantity is an indicator that a defense is on the field for a while. Maybe more so than they should be. Not to take anything away from Wagner. Tommy Nobis had 294 tackles in a season and most of the Falcons' teams he was a part of were HORRID.

That's the thing---he really didn't have 294 tackles---any more than Frank Nunley had 345 in 1971....those coach's totals are questionable.

play-by-plays show Nobis had 125 that year---less that half what the coaches game him . . .

I'm not sure if the point is more that "tackle totals aren't always correct" or that "tackle totals can be a bit deceiving" but I seem to recall reading many years ago that Gary Spani was the all-time tackle leader for the Kansas City Chiefs (with 999! - a mark that I believe has since been broken) which seems to indicate that being a team's top tackler doesn't necessarily mean that one is a standout player (I'm not implying that about Bobby Wagner. He's been great for the 'hawks).