Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Well this is kind of like saying Peyton Manning pre-2004 and Peyton Manning post-2004, what changed with Peyton Manning? Not a whole lot, what changed FOR him was rules (whether changes or "emphasis") - which is the same for all QB's in the period, the gradual increase in stats is essentially tied directly to the year-to-year rule changes to make passing easier and to further protect the QB's (and as the changes went along, to further protect the receivers) ... Drew Brees entire career - when looked at statistically - is basically pre-glorified 7 on 7 and then playing in the glorified 7 on 7 era.

Brett Favre's three best seasons of completion percentage were (not in order): 2007, 2008 and 2009. You'll note that he played for THREE different teams in three consecutive seasons. What changed for Favre? Did he become a much better player on his way to 40 years old? Stats don't tell the story, as they usually don't.

Brady would be no different. Plus, he plays for a coach/organization who are great at taking advantage of playing rules. Illegal contact? Gets better receivers. Already over-protected QB's get new rules to become even more protected? Build around QB. Middle of the field gradually becomes more and more of a free pass? TE's, slots. Competing passes easier than ever? Throw the ball.

Brady improved like any veteran player improves (game slows down, he himself is particularly a hard worker) but he statistically 'improved' because that's the sport now.

I think the big thing that happened in 2007 was the addition of Wes Welker and the resultant increase in the importance of the slot receiver in the Patriots' offense. Before 2007, when the Patriots put a receiver in the slot, he was basically operating as another wide receiver. Welker ran different types of routes; a lot of options and arrows, where quickness and the ability to run with the ball after the catch are more important that straight-out speed or the ability to run all the routes in the standard route tree. Welker, of course has been succeeded by Edelman (and Amendola, in a smaller way).

The TE has also become much more important in the Patriot's passing attack in recent years. Certainly, that may be primarily because of the arrival of Gronkowski (and Hernandez) in 2010, but it's certainly a fact.

I think those changes have a lot more to do with the apparent improvement in Brady's game. Yes, he gets rid of the ball faster than he used to; but I think it's because he's throwing shorter passes to different receivers than he did in his earlier years.

My thought is that there isn't anything to this beyond the rule changes that have made it easier to accumulate sweet passing statistics.

Then I read this thread and saw Brady's wife's name mentioned, mwald's initial post which apparently was sarcastic (I haven't figured out the sarcasm in it yet), and some other stuff about Brady's age and no drop off and now I am wondering if I am supposed to be thinking about HGH and steroids.

Maybe Brady just matured a little as a passer. It used to be that it took years for a QB to put everything together; they said a QB used to have to carry a clipboard for five years, but not so much anymore. Perhaps after 2007 Brady or one of the coaches realized something small in his mechanics, or Brady made a small step forward as a QB, which might have been a significant step forward for a mediocre QB. I think the addition of Welker and Moss in that time frame certainly didn't hurt, either. Is it possible he got laser eye surgery during the offseason which improved his eyesight?

Rupert Patrick wrote: Is it possible he got laser eye surgery during the offseason which improved his eyesight?

LOL

He started with his "Mr Myogi" a couple year earlier, but I think a motivated Moss and a motivated Welker were a big part, Motivation to up his game to MVP-level may be part of it, and the rules and how PI was being called may be part of it.

With John Elway we know what the change was, the WCO, here, it's just not as clear, no scheme change, etc

JohnTurney wrote:on similar comparison is Joe Montana, a 2-time champ, good stats, etc... was certainly all-pro candidate but really wasn't before 1987.

when Young arrived, Montana got even better, was MVP, was passing titles, won a couple more .... I always thought that competition or "insult" of bringing in Young in 1987 after the back injury in 1986 ... motivated Montana to another level.

I think Montana having Jerry Rice and Roger Craig really boosted his numbers from 1987-1989. Rice had a great season in 1986, too, but Montana had his back issues and Craig had hip issues so neither of them were at full strength. I would guess that Jerry Rice (and John Taylor in 1989) had more of a tangible impact on Montana's stats than any Steve Young/competition narrative, but that's JMO. You could be right.

As for Brady, I think he's obviously gotten better with age. I think its somewhat expected considering that Brady as kind of thrown into the fire right away. I think that over the years Belichick has ceded total control of the offense to Brady. For all the great QBs and offensive minds down through NFL history, Belichick/Brady was the first offense I remember that would go entire halves without a rushing attempt. Belichick was comfortable having Brady throw on 25-30 straight downs.

Brady's first "historic" statistical passing season came when Randy Moss arrived, which is not coincidental. I think Randy Moss is probably the 2nd best WR of the modern era behind Jerry Rice, and Rob Gronkowski is the best TE I have seen since prime Kellen Winslow. Those two guys are the only elite playmakers that Brady has had, and they both came in the 2nd half of Brady's career. Also, I think passing numbers are higher across-the-board now.

So... we're asking why it is that Montana's numbers went up when he started playing with the greatest receiver of all time, why Brady's numbers went up when he started playing with one of the greatest receivers of all time, and why Manning's numbers went up when the second future Hall of Fame receiver he played with had his breakout season?

Definitely it's the girlfriends.

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:So... we're asking why it is that Montana's numbers went up when he started playing with the greatest receiver of all time, why Brady's numbers went up when he started playing with one of the greatest receivers of all time, and why Manning's numbers went up when the second future Hall of Fame receiver he played with had his breakout season?

Definitely it's the girlfriends.

This is what's known in some parts as opening the door and letting fresh air blow out the flatulence.

Have to ask, though, did you get permission to say that first?

mwald wrote:

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:So... we're asking why it is that Montana's numbers went up when he started playing with the greatest receiver of all time, why Brady's numbers went up when he started playing with one of the greatest receivers of all time, and why Manning's numbers went up when the second future Hall of Fame receiver he played with had his breakout season?

Definitely it's the girlfriends.

This is what's known in some parts as opening the door and letting fresh air blow out the flatulence.

Have to ask, though, did you get permission to say that first?

Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding what this thread is about. I can't tell if any of it is serious. Maybe I'm getting a little thick in my advancing years, but when a team goes from Reche Caldwell to Randy Moss, or Freddie Solomon to Jerry Rice... I mean, really? We're talking about this? It's about Jeff Kemp being replaced by Steve Young as the backup QB? Really?

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote: Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding what this thread is about. I can't tell if any of it is serious. Maybe I'm getting a little thick in my advancing years, but when a team goes from Reche Caldwell to Randy Moss, or Freddie Solomon to Jerry Rice... I mean, really? We're talking about this? It's about Jeff Kemp being replaced by Steve Young as the backup QB? Really?

Makes sense to me. And aside from the stats, can anyone honestly say Brady has gotten better or worse? From the second he stepped on the field he's been an absolute killer in critical moments, which is what it's all about.

I'd argue, if anything, he's gotten very slightly, almost imperceptibly, worse (age will do that to you); didn't see him throw bad passes at the end of his earlier Super Bowls like he did against the Giants.

But apparently, having such thoughts caused quite a dust up. Not sure why.