Professional Football Researchers Association Forum
PFRA is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the history of professional football. Formed in 1979, PFRA members include many of the game's foremost historians and writers.
Evan wrote:Was the Monday performance at Dallas one of Bart Starr's best ever? Cowboys come in 6-0 on the year (average margin of victory was 25 points in those first six wins), and get off to a 10-0 lead before Starr throws 4 TD passes in a 28-17 win. I'm guessing that game was a night game, but I assume it was not nationally televised. Anybody able to confirm those details?
The game was definitely televised by CBS. It was part of their TV deal, where they got to show ONE Monday night game per year--with a start time of 9:30 Eastern, lest the Lucy Show be pre-empted...
I saw one absurd prediction that picked the Steelers to win the Century Division in '68, based on the Browns and Cardinals aging, coupled with each team's racial issues. Still, Dallas was THE pick to coast through the East.
74_75_78_79_ wrote:End of day, I would have to guess that their expectations going into '68 were no different than the Steelers in 1980. Going by my '80 Street & Smith's souvenir, it seemed to be greatly assumed that there was no letdown/complacency in the air, or even on the horizon, up in Latrobe.
The 1980 Handbook of Pro Football (the one that Schenley sponsored in 1981) that I got on E-Bay a few months ago also had the Steelers going back to the Super Bowl.
This, of course, was the same handbook that basically said that the 49ers were going to be unstoppable in 1982, and they ended up 3-6.
Evan wrote:Was the Monday performance at Dallas one of Bart Starr's best ever? Cowboys come in 6-0 on the year (average margin of victory was 25 points in those first six wins), and get off to a 10-0 lead before Starr throws 4 TD passes in a 28-17 win. I'm guessing that game was a night game, but I assume it was not nationally televised. Anybody able to confirm those details?
It was a Monday night game televised nationally on CBS.
Starr had a great game, but it was the Green Bay defense that really clamped down after spotting Dallas 10. Willie Davis broke Don Meredith's nose early in the game, and Ray Nitschke recovered a Craig Baynham fumble at the Dallas 22 midway through the 4th quarter, setting the Packers up for the clinching TD.
ah, so that explains those odd pics I've seen of Meredith wearing what was then a linemans facemask. He was protecting his nose
I can tell you the expectation of an 11-year old Packer fan was another title. Tex Maule, whose predictions often were as prescient as those of an 11-year old, also was high on the Pack. In SI's football preview issue that year he praised the team's depth at wide receiver with young speedsters Jeff White and Dave Dunaway, who both now reside in the Bizarro World Hall of Fame.
To be fair, the defense was still stout, but Starr was aging and ailing and lacked an adequate replacement. The team probably still would have won the weak Central Division had Phil Bengtson agreed to let Don Chandler report just for games so he could maintain his insurance practice. Green Bay lost a number of close games due to abysmal kicking.
The clear end point to expectations came on opening day 1970 when the Lions whipped the Packers 40-0 at home, and the Lambeau faithful booed the fallen heroes.
by John Maxymuk » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:34 am
"... The team probably still would have won the weak Central Division had Phil Bengtson agreed to let Don Chandler report just for games so he could maintain his insurance practice. Green Bay lost a number of close games due to abysmal kicking..."
Didn't the Giants correct an early season similar decision concerning Ben Agajanian? I am sure they did and he came out of "retirement" and commuted to the Apple just to kick. In fact, there are some who claimed the Giants (secretly) paid his transportation to and lodging in the City.
"It was a different game when I played.
When a player made a good play, he didn't jump up and down.
Those kinds of plays were expected."
~ Arnie Weinmeister
Bryan wrote:The 1968 Packers might have missed Don Chandler more than Vince Lombardi.
Absolutely. Lombardi was the Packer GM in 1968. With so many over 30 players, they probably wouldn't have done much better with Lombardi still the head coach.
Evan wrote:
Was the Monday performance at Dallas one of Bart Starr's best ever? Cowboys come in 6-0 on the year (average margin of victory was 25 points in those first six wins), and get off to a 10-0 lead before Starr throws 4 TD passes in a 28-17 win. I'm guessing that game was a night game, but I assume it was not nationally televised. Anybody able to confirm those details?
The game was even televised by the CBC in Canada. I wasn't quite 10 years old so I couldn't stay up for the whole game but I was mightily interested since the Ice Bowl was the first NFL game I ever watched from start to finish and I wanted the Cowboys to avenge the loss. I think the Packers had gone ahead when I went to bed but I know I was disappointed the next morning when I heard the final score. That game fascinates me to this day. I would love to see the film.
Bryan wrote:The 1968 Packers might have missed Don Chandler more than Vince Lombardi.
Absolutely. Lombardi was the Packer GM in 1968. With so many over 30 players, they probably wouldn't have done much better with Lombardi still the head coach.
I wouldn't bet on that. George Allen had a fair amount of success with the Over the Hill Gang so I don't doubt that Lombardi could have squeezed two more wins out of the 1968 Pack to win the division. They did rebound somewhat to an 8-6 record in '69 so they weren't completely washed up.
Don Horn (no relation) played very well in relief of Bart during that 1969 season but he was never effective again, playing terribly in 1970 and then in 1971 with Denver. He hung around for a few more years never again throwing more than 8 passes in a season. I believe he may have suffered an arm injury at some point which derailed his promising career. Can anyone confirm that?
Horn hurt his knee during pregame warmups before the Packers' 1970 Thanksgiving game at Dallas. That was almost beside the point, though, because he had already said he would play out his option in Green Bay that season. Lombardi (Horn has claimed) had wanted to bring him to Washington and that never happened, and then Starr (again, Horn claims) told him he was going to play four more years. So Horn made it clear he wanted out of Green Bay, and then proceeded to have a horrific 1970 season before getting hurt. During his one year in Denver, he hurt his shoulder and re-injured his knee, and that was that.
As for Green Bay's 1969 season providing cause for optimism, in retrospect their winning record was a bit of a mirage. They won three games against Chicago and Pittsburgh (2-26 combined) and five others against losing teams. Their record against winning teams was 1-6.
