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Then there’s the Pro Football Hall of Fame, which should have McMichael in it. Not out of sympathy but merit.
McMichael had 95 career sacks, 3½ more than Hall of Fame defensive end Howie Long. He had 17 fumble recoveries, seven more than Long. He had three safeties, Long none.
Chicago legends Ron Santo and Minnie Minoso were voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame after they died. And you wonder what good that did them.
For what he did, for what he’s yet doing, McMichael deserves his own honored spot among the greats. He truly does.
Interesting comparison to Long.
Last edited by Hail Casares on Tue May 03, 2022 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then there’s the Pro Football Hall of Fame, which should have McMichael in it. Not out of sympathy but merit.
McMichael had 95 career sacks, 3½ more than Hall of Fame defensive end Howie Long. He had 17 fumble recoveries, seven more than Long. He had three safeties, Long none.
Chicago legends Ron Santo and Minnie Minoso were voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame after they died. And you wonder what good that did them.
For what he did, for what he’s yet doing, McMichael deserves his own honored spot among the greats. He truly does.[/qupte]
Interesting comparison to Long.
A lot being thrown at the wall here...which is par for the course with Telander the last 25+ years. I'll comment on each aspect:
McMichael was a HOVG player in my opinion. His career is a bit odd...low peak, yet all of his honors are basically from 1985-1987, but he was consistently productive for a long time as a DT. McMichael had 3 seasons of 10+ sacks over 15 years (spaced out evenly over his career) whereas Long had 3 straight seasons of 10+ sacks. I think that illustrates the difference between McMichael and Long...Long was regarded as the best DL in the NFL in the mid-80's...at the same time McMichael was at his peak...I don't think anyone who saw both play (which includes Telander) would say that McMichael was 'better' than Long.
FWIW, I do think Long has retrospectively been overrated and McMichael underrated, but Long was a strongside DE who moved to DT in passing situations who produced pressure from every DL spot. For Telander to sum up this versatility by saying "McMichael has 3.5 sacks more than Long" kind of misses the point. Long's resume is not about sacks...McMichael's resume is almost entirely about sacks...yet McMichael played much longer and has only 3.5 more sacks.
The "3 safeties" comment is absurd. Thats like saying Amos Otis hit 3 inside-the-park HRs compared to Hank Aaron's 0. Even the fumble recoveries are lacking context. Ray Childress, the AFC version of Steve McMichael, had more FFs and FRs than McMichael in much less time. Not sure what to make of the Santo/Minoso reference.
Then there’s the Pro Football Hall of Fame, which should have McMichael in it. Not out of sympathy but merit.
McMichael had 95 career sacks, 3½ more than Hall of Fame defensive end Howie Long. He had 17 fumble recoveries, seven more than Long. He had three safeties, Long none.
Chicago legends Ron Santo and Minnie Minoso were voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame after they died. And you wonder what good that did them.
For what he did, for what he’s yet doing, McMichael deserves his own honored spot among the greats. He truly does.[/qupte]
Interesting comparison to Long.
A lot being thrown at the wall here...which is par for the course with Telander the last 25+ years. I'll comment on each aspect:
McMichael was a HOVG player in my opinion. His career is a bit odd...low peak, yet all of his honors are basically from 1985-1987, but he was consistently productive for a long time as a DT. McMichael had 3 seasons of 10+ sacks over 15 years (spaced out evenly over his career) whereas Long had 3 straight seasons of 10+ sacks. I think that illustrates the difference between McMichael and Long...Long was regarded as the best DL in the NFL in the mid-80's...at the same time McMichael was at his peak...I don't think anyone who saw both play (which includes Telander) would say that McMichael was 'better' than Long.
FWIW, I do think Long has retrospectively been overrated and McMichael underrated, but Long was a strongside DE who moved to DT in passing situations who produced pressure from every DL spot. For Telander to sum up this versatility by saying "McMichael has 3.5 sacks more than Long" kind of misses the point. Long's resume is not about sacks...McMichael's resume is almost entirely about sacks...yet McMichael played much longer and has only 3.5 more sacks.
The "3 safeties" comment is absurd. That's like saying Amos Otis hit 3 inside-the-park HRs compared to Hank Aaron's 0. Even the fumble recoveries are lacking context. Ray Childress, the AFC version of Steve McMichael, had more FFs and FRs than McMichael in much less time. Not sure what to make of the Santo/Minoso reference.
I think McMichael only played about two more years than Long.
I will say though that I agree that McMichael seems to be underrated. I had completely forgotten(or didn't know) that he made two All-Pro teams and was so good for so long. To be honest, I always mentally pictured his career more like Jim Covert's or Otis Wilson's, where he was really good in the 80's then by 90 was pretty much toast and played a season for Green Bay sometime around 1992. I had no recollection of him still being so good/productive into the early 90s.
Telender's case seems really odd, especially since Long is seen as a DE by many as well and not a DT. He was just a more versatile player. To be honest, if I was Telender I would have point to Bryant Young's induction. McMichael has more sacks than Young, more 1st team All-Pros(in a better DL era), has a SB ring, more tackles, FF's etc.
Mongo didn't make an all-decade team though or have Schlereth give a made-up endorsement though. Likely hurts Mongo's case.
Hail Casares wrote:Telender's case seems really odd, especially since Long is seen as a DE by many as well and not a DT. He was just a more versatile player. To be honest, if I was Telender I would have point to Bryant Young's induction. McMichael has more sacks than Young, more 1st team All-Pros(in a better DL era), has a SB ring, more tackles, FF's etc.
Mongo didn't make an all-decade team though or have Schlereth give a made-up endorsement though. Likely hurts Mongo's case.
Yeah, McMichael does have a HOF case, but Telander's "argument" is ridiculous. It would make more sense to compare McMichael to guys like Bryant Young or even Alex Karras (both named Mongo), cite the overall effectiveness of McMichael's defenses, the consistent production, etc....the three guys Telander chose as comparisons were Howie Long, Ron Santo & Minnie Minoso.
Hail Casares wrote:Telender's case seems really odd, especially since Long is seen as a DE by many as well and not a DT. He was just a more versatile player. To be honest, if I was Telender I would have point to Bryant Young's induction. McMichael has more sacks than Young, more 1st team All-Pros(in a better DL era), has a SB ring, more tackles, FF's etc.
Mongo didn't make an all-decade team though or have Schlereth give a made-up endorsement though. Likely hurts Mongo's case.
Yeah, McMichael does have a HOF case, but Telander's "argument" is ridiculous. It would make more sense to compare McMichael to guys like Bryant Young or even Alex Karras (both named Mongo), cite the overall effectiveness of McMichael's defenses, the consistent production, etc....the three guys Telander chose as comparisons were Howie Long, Ron Santo & Minnie Minoso.
Agreed. I think McMichael is a HOVG guy for sure. Same with Young. HOF? I can't get there. Just not enough meat on the bone there. Terrible to see what has happened to him though.
Long was so good as a pass rusher early in his career, that he could have had another 20-25 sacks but QBs would slip out of his grasp. Mongo was underrated while Hampton, who could be great but injury prone, was slightly overrated.
But regarding sacks, McMichael had some massive numbers. My favorite is that from 1983 (when McMichael became a starter) to 1993 (his final season on the Bears), McMichael outsacked the average Associated Press All Pro defensive tackle:
AP DT average: 7.8 sacks
McMichael average: 8.2 sacks
Looking at the five best Bears defensive seasons of the 1980s, 1984 to 1988:
AP DT average: 7.1 sacks
AP DT 1st team average: 9.0 sacks
McMichael average: 8.9 sacks
With over 100 career sacks counting postseason, he has a case but can he break through?
This is why I dont like queues for these seniors. Every year should be a reshuffling of the deck.
Voters can reevaluate and change their minds ...
Sacks are a solid starting point and the honors and such.
To me the turning point is I think 7-8 "blue: years
or one or two "blue box" years.
Only negs is playing next to Hampton fewer double teams
but it's not like he never got doubled, he did...when Bears
moved Hampton to DE in 1985 in base---McMichael prob doubled
more...but when in 46 and a safety down, no one gets doubled
So that cannot be used against him, didn't have a ton
of TFLs but again, things like that are esoteric. He's well
respected by peers so I seem him as there. I've underrated him
I think.
That said, I rate Michael Dean Perry higher. I would like both in
but to me Perry passes the eye test more, had a lot more
tackles for loss, not as long a career, so sacks not as high
but Perry an excellent rusher...
A lot of DTs had high peaks but short careers (Ladd, Reid, Chambers
Millard) so they are not HOF...but McMichael may not get the momentum he deserves
but with they'd look at Perry, too.
They just don't look at tackles for loss and that a guy who gets 10 in a year is special
and Perry did that yearly...and for the losses--there are plenty for no gain (counts
for everyone) but I never counted those (should have)...
Anyway, I think McMichael's case is solid and sacks are maybe only half or so of the case
Brian wolf wrote:With over 100 career sacks counting postseason, he has a case but can he break through?
This is why I dont like queues for these seniors. Every year should be a reshuffling of the deck.
Voters can reevaluate and change their minds ...
