The Rams matched up well (and led well into the fourth quarter) against the Steelers except for the wide receivers. Stallworth and Swann were way, way better than the journeymen the Rams had.BD Sullivan wrote:The Bradshaw to Stallworth fourth quarter TD pass in the Super Bowl win over the Rams is arguably the most perfect clutch pass in NFL history since the Rams DB really couldn't have done much more to defend the pass and it gave the Steelers the lead for good in what had been a tight, back-and-forth game.Teo wrote: Although I didn't include him in my top 5, I regard Stallworth as one of the greatest and most talented WR ever (not for the stats, but for the film). I'm no expert on film study, but I think that if you watched him on live TV or in the NFL Films highlights, you agree: I don't remember a bad or even mediocre game of him, every play he could go for a long TD or make the crucial catch over the middle. It's sad that he missed nearly three full seasons due to injury.
Top wide receivers in history
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
- Rupert Patrick
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
The SI cover photo of Stallworth catching the TD pass from Bradshaw in Super Bowl XIV is my favorite NFL Sports Illustrated cover of all time:SixtiesFan wrote:The Rams matched up well (and led well into the fourth quarter) against the Steelers except for the wide receivers. Stallworth and Swann were way, way better than the journeymen the Rams had.BD Sullivan wrote:The Bradshaw to Stallworth fourth quarter TD pass in the Super Bowl win over the Rams is arguably the most perfect clutch pass in NFL history since the Rams DB really couldn't have done much more to defend the pass and it gave the Steelers the lead for good in what had been a tight, back-and-forth game.Teo wrote: Although I didn't include him in my top 5, I regard Stallworth as one of the greatest and most talented WR ever (not for the stats, but for the film). I'm no expert on film study, but I think that if you watched him on live TV or in the NFL Films highlights, you agree: I don't remember a bad or even mediocre game of him, every play he could go for a long TD or make the crucial catch over the middle. It's sad that he missed nearly three full seasons due to injury.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... mrc&uact=8
"Every time you lose, you die a little bit. You die inside. Not all your organs, maybe just your liver." - George Allen
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
Which led to the amusing sight of a PO'ed Chuck Noll yelling at an NFL Films cameraman that was shooting a conversation between Noll and Bradshaw (at the 15-minute mark):SixtiesFan wrote:The Rams matched up well (and led well into the fourth quarter) against the Steelers except for the wide receivers. Stallworth and Swann were way, way better than the journeymen the Rams had.BD Sullivan wrote:The Bradshaw to Stallworth fourth quarter TD pass in the Super Bowl win over the Rams is arguably the most perfect clutch pass in NFL history since the Rams DB really couldn't have done much more to defend the pass and it gave the Steelers the lead for good in what had been a tight, back-and-forth game.Teo wrote: Although I didn't include him in my top 5, I regard Stallworth as one of the greatest and most talented WR ever (not for the stats, but for the film). I'm no expert on film study, but I think that if you watched him on live TV or in the NFL Films highlights, you agree: I don't remember a bad or even mediocre game of him, every play he could go for a long TD or make the crucial catch over the middle. It's sad that he missed nearly three full seasons due to injury.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwhwaK9Pdkk
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
My top 2 tiers
Tier 1:
Rice
Hutson
Tier 2:
Moss
Alworth
TO
Hennigan
Megatron
Largent
Berry is waaay overrated... only one 1000 yard season and was never better than alright again afterwards. Hennigan was the best receiver everyone has forgotten about, he and Groman (who was really good too) were the only reason Blanda was at all tenable. Sure enough, when they both got banged up he turned into a total hot garbage tire fire of a QB.
Tier 1:
Rice
Hutson
Tier 2:
Moss
Alworth
TO
Hennigan
Megatron
Largent
Berry is waaay overrated... only one 1000 yard season and was never better than alright again afterwards. Hennigan was the best receiver everyone has forgotten about, he and Groman (who was really good too) were the only reason Blanda was at all tenable. Sure enough, when they both got banged up he turned into a total hot garbage tire fire of a QB.
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
That's a joke, right? Berry's alleged "decline" coincided with the emergence or arrival of other Colt receiving options like Jimmy Orr, John Mackey and Tom Matte. Not to mention the fact that the game was completely different 50-60 years ago and wasn't as pass happy. That's like the people who dismiss Paul Warfield because of his relatively low receiving numbers--forgetting the fact that he played with running games that included Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick and Mercury Morris.JameisLoseston wrote:My top 2 tiers
Tier 1:
Rice
Hutson
Tier 2:
Moss
Alworth
TO
Hennigan
Megatron
Largent
Berry is waaay overrated... only one 1000 yard season and was never better than alright again afterwards. Hennigan was the best receiver everyone has forgotten about, he and Groman (who was really good too) were the only reason Blanda was at all tenable. Sure enough, when they both got banged up he turned into a total hot garbage tire fire of a QB.
In the case if Hennigan, he rolled up big numbers against AFL secondaries during the first five years of the league--when the talent level was often suspect with some teams. After his monster 1964 season, he was done two years later.
- JeffreyMiller
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
Lord have mercy! Would you remove Hugh McIlhenny or Paul Hornung for the same reason? Not to mention the fact that the league played 12 games per season during Berry's best years.BD Sullivan wrote:That's a joke, right? Berry's alleged "decline" coincided with the emergence or arrival of other Colt receiving options like Jimmy Orr, John Mackey and Tom Matte. Not to mention the fact that the game was completely different 50-60 years ago and wasn't as pass happy. That's like the people who dismiss Paul Warfield because of his relatively low receiving numbers--forgetting the fact that he played with running games that included Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick and Mercury Morris.JameisLoseston wrote:My top 2 tiers
Tier 1:
Rice
Hutson
Tier 2:
Moss
Alworth
TO
Hennigan
Megatron
Largent
Berry is waaay overrated... only one 1000 yard season and was never better than alright again afterwards. Hennigan was the best receiver everyone has forgotten about, he and Groman (who was really good too) were the only reason Blanda was at all tenable. Sure enough, when they both got banged up he turned into a total hot garbage tire fire of a QB.
In the case if Hennigan, he rolled up big numbers against AFL secondaries during the first five years of the league--when the talent level was often suspect with some teams. After his monster 1964 season, he was done two years later.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football."
- Rupert Patrick
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
I know this is going to border on sacrilege, but why is Jerry Rice, by almost universal acclaim, the greatest wide receiver ever? Is it the longevity? Or the combination of skills? He was fast, but he didn't have breakaway speed. He had good hands, but he wasn't Steve Largent. Did he run his routes better than everybody else? Did he have that way of making the impossible catch? Was it the intangibles? Other than longevity, he doesn't pencil out at the top of any of the lists among the best receivers. This "Best Ever" discussion with Rice didn't start later in his career, it was already being discussed in the early 90's, and even back then, I just didn't see it. I do think the performance level for as many years as he did it put him well over the top in Career Value, as no receiver was effective as long as Rice was, but as far as Peak Value is concerned, is he the best ever?
Rice had the advantage of playing the majority of his career with two Hall of Fame Quarterbacks, along with Rich Gannon, who played at a HOF level when Rice was with the Raiders. It was a chicken-and-egg thing with Rice and his QB's; he made them better, and they in turn made him better. He had the advantage of playing in a lot of postseason games. Rice managed to stay healthy, only suffering one major injury during his career, and other than that 1997 season, never missed a game in his career. He was in the right place at the right time his entire career, perhaps in the most career optimal situation for any player in pro football history along with Tom Brady.
I used to say that Walter Payton was arguably the greatest running back ever despite the fact he wasn't the biggest, or fastest, or had the best moves, but it was the total package. Payton, however, succeeded in less than optimal positions where he was carrying the team on his back for most of his career. Peyton pretty much had to fight for every yard he ever gained.
This isn't a knock on Rice, I totally agree he is the greatest receiver ever based on longevity/career value, but did his skills alone make him the best total package? And what about Peak Value? And does the fact he played his career with Montana, Young and Gannon have to be factored into the discussion when compared to guys like who didn't play for the same calibre quarterbacks?
Rice had the advantage of playing the majority of his career with two Hall of Fame Quarterbacks, along with Rich Gannon, who played at a HOF level when Rice was with the Raiders. It was a chicken-and-egg thing with Rice and his QB's; he made them better, and they in turn made him better. He had the advantage of playing in a lot of postseason games. Rice managed to stay healthy, only suffering one major injury during his career, and other than that 1997 season, never missed a game in his career. He was in the right place at the right time his entire career, perhaps in the most career optimal situation for any player in pro football history along with Tom Brady.
I used to say that Walter Payton was arguably the greatest running back ever despite the fact he wasn't the biggest, or fastest, or had the best moves, but it was the total package. Payton, however, succeeded in less than optimal positions where he was carrying the team on his back for most of his career. Peyton pretty much had to fight for every yard he ever gained.
This isn't a knock on Rice, I totally agree he is the greatest receiver ever based on longevity/career value, but did his skills alone make him the best total package? And what about Peak Value? And does the fact he played his career with Montana, Young and Gannon have to be factored into the discussion when compared to guys like who didn't play for the same calibre quarterbacks?
"Every time you lose, you die a little bit. You die inside. Not all your organs, maybe just your liver." - George Allen
Top wide receivers in history
1. Don Hutson
2. Paul Warfield
3. Jerry Rice
4. Lance Alworth
2. Paul Warfield
3. Jerry Rice
4. Lance Alworth
Axes Grind and Maces Clash!
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Re: Top wide receivers in history
I have Berry top 10-12 and high third tier for all the reasons you mentioned, but the people putting him top 5 are simply giving too much benefit of the doubt. That's all I was saying. Did I ever say I'd remove Berry from the HOF? LOL. As for Hennigan, he Jordan Reed'ed his way out of the league with concussions; I have a particular liking for short career guys with otherworldly peaks like he and Priest Holmes etc., so maybe that's not everyone's thing. But if we want to argue against the pre-SB AFL, we have to dock Alworth's best couple seasons similarly.JeffreyMiller wrote:Lord have mercy! Would you remove Hugh McIlhenny or Paul Hornung for the same reason? Not to mention the fact that the league played 12 games per season during Berry's best years.BD Sullivan wrote:That's a joke, right? Berry's alleged "decline" coincided with the emergence or arrival of other Colt receiving options like Jimmy Orr, John Mackey and Tom Matte. Not to mention the fact that the game was completely different 50-60 years ago and wasn't as pass happy. That's like the people who dismiss Paul Warfield because of his relatively low receiving numbers--forgetting the fact that he played with running games that included Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick and Mercury Morris.JameisLoseston wrote:My top 2 tiers
Tier 1:
Rice
Hutson
Tier 2:
Moss
Alworth
TO
Hennigan
Megatron
Largent
Berry is waaay overrated... only one 1000 yard season and was never better than alright again afterwards. Hennigan was the best receiver everyone has forgotten about, he and Groman (who was really good too) were the only reason Blanda was at all tenable. Sure enough, when they both got banged up he turned into a total hot garbage tire fire of a QB.
In the case if Hennigan, he rolled up big numbers against AFL secondaries during the first five years of the league--when the talent level was often suspect with some teams. After his monster 1964 season, he was done two years later.
Re: Top wide receivers in history
Rupert,
Wayne Gretzky wasn’t the fastest skater, he didn’t have the hardest shot and he wasn’t big enough to play a physical game. He didn’t look like anything overly special until you counted up his point totals and saw that he had lapped the field. Jerry Rice was football’s Wayne Gretzky.
Wayne Gretzky wasn’t the fastest skater, he didn’t have the hardest shot and he wasn’t big enough to play a physical game. He didn’t look like anything overly special until you counted up his point totals and saw that he had lapped the field. Jerry Rice was football’s Wayne Gretzky.