Random thoughts on random 1970's players

[NWebster]

Pretty much this. Yary was regarded as one of the best NCAA OTs in history when he left USC, and Munchak came from Penn State's football factory, so perhaps their reputations preceded them.

That happens with OL today, for sure. Such as Maurkice Pouncey who was known in college and then had the fortune of becoming a Steeler (and Steelers center at that!) which had people putting him in the HOF before he even played his first game. To date, based on my view, grading sites and most importantly people I know who specifically focus on OL, he's never been a Top 2 (All-Pro level) center and arguably has never been top 5 (Pro Bowl level) yet as long as he doesn't get injured and plays above average for another handful of years he's essentially a lock for the HOF with the honors he's somehow already got and the reputation ones coming - also what happens, obviously, is an OL has a good season (or perceived good season / voted all-pro) early in their career and that's enough to get them a string of reputation all-pro/pro bowl selections. Pouncey hit the double on all of that.

This effect really annoys me and is almost certainly the case for non stats producing positions. Personal pet peeve is Champ Bailey, highly regarded collegian, high draft pick, excellent as a rookie, then it just became assumed that he's a great one. Had 2 great seasons in a long career and another 3 good ones, his targeted passer rating is below guys like Sam Madison who will never sniff the Hall, Bailey will likely be in on an early ballot with plaudits as an all time great.

[bachslunch]

Lem Barney was the Richard Sherman of his time. So lethal that other teams didn't even throw in his direction.

Not to mention he was an excellent return man on both kickoffs and punts. As a rookie, he led the league in pickoffs with 10--turning three of those into pick-sixes.

Barney also was the Lions punter in 1967 and 1969.

[Reaser]

though currently Maurkice only has honors of 2/5, even with Ryan Kalil and behind Nick Mangold (4/7) and Travis Frederick (3/3 and counting).

Kalil and Mangold are on the back-end of their careers. Maurkice is 27 years old. He's literally been a pro bowler every season he hasn't been injured. So he's been auto-Pro Bowl every season except for the two (injured in week 1, 2013) he missed due to injury - hence, "as long as he doesn't get injured" - and has been 1st or 2nd team All Pro every season except for the two he missed and last season when he had the thumb issue off and on. So to recap, he's played 5 full (or close to full) seasons, made 5 pro bowls and 4x been 1st/2nd team All-Pro.

[Apbaball]

Lem Barney was the Richard Sherman of his time. So lethal that other teams didn't even throw in his direction.

I don't have the links to the articles in front of me but I had been reading the Chicago Tribune and Milwaukee Journal archives (before it was pulled) from the early 1970s and there were several references of Barney being beat long more than once in a game. I had the feeling he was a gambling type of CB who posted good INT numbers but could be beaten deep as a result. Interception records are kept but not TD passes allowed which can give a distorted picture of performance. I know he was only one member of the pass defense but the Lions yards per pass attempt was NOt that good if I remember correctly.

[Bryan]

Watching some more 1970's NFL action...

Milt Morin - he's been mentioned before, but I saw a play in a 1974 (?) Browns-Raiders game...Phipps floats a pass over the middle to Morin, you can see Jack Tatum coming in to deliver the kill shot...Morin has to turn and reach for the ball over his head...Tatum lowers his helmet and spears Morin in the ribs...Tatum bounces off Morin and falls down on his back...Morin catches the ball and turns upfield as if nothing has happened....incredible stuff.

Billy Johnson - he's been mentioned before, too, but the footage of White Shoes is amazing. I was watching one game where Johnson has a great punt return TD...later in the game he has an even greater punt return TD that's called back due to a penalty...and then Johnson has an incredible play where he catches a deflected pass, makes everyone miss, and scores a TD (called back due to 'illegal touching'...when did this actually get changed in the rulebook?). John Turney speculates that Johnson will be removed from the NFL All-Time team in favor of Devin Hester, and he's probably right, but I think Johnson was way more exciting than Hester. Hester was just a one cut and go type of returner...Johnson's returns were like odysseys, and he could also make great receiving and running plays.

John Riggins - watching him on the Jets...those teams were pretty terrible. Namath was hurt all the time, Woodall was hurt half the time, so then they'd have Bill Demory or Bob Davis at QB. The defense was so devoid of talent that the Jets were trying to make due with Larry Grantham/Ralph Baker at LB several years after Super Bowl III. The offensive line wasn't very good, and you had Rich Caster lining up at TE and Eddie Bell trying to block downfield. Against the Dolphins, Riggins takes the handoff, immediately muscles through 3 guys...bounces outside...muscles through 3 more guys...and gains 8 yards. Its incredible how many yards Riggins gained on his own, and the size/speed talent is very noticeable. A very different type of athlete. Riggins doesn't have eye-popping statistics, but he did rush for over 1000 yards 5 different times, and it could have been 7 if 1982 didn't have a strike and if Riggins didn't miss time in 1972. He wasted two years in Washington when George Allen made him a blocking back (for Mike Thomas of all people). Anyways, I found the "young" Riggins footage to be captivating.

[slats7]

If there's a HOF just for killing the Cowboys, Harold Jackson would be in. A shame he and Cliff Branch and Drew Pearson are still on the outside looking in.

[JohnH19]

Where would Isaac Curtis fit into a discussion about WRs of the 70s? For some reason, he reminds me of a lesser Paul Warfield; a game breaker who never caught a ton of passes in a single season.

[BD Sullivan]

Where would Isaac Curtis fit into a discussion about WRs of the 70s? For some reason, he reminds me of a lesser Paul Warfield; a game breaker who never caught a ton of passes in a single season.

During his first 3-4 years, he absolutely killed the Browns on a regular basis.

[bachslunch]

Where would Isaac Curtis fit into a discussion about WRs of the 70s? For some reason, he reminds me of a lesser Paul Warfield; a game breaker who never caught a ton of passes in a single season.

FWIW, Curtis's numbers, while very good, look a little short of the Pearson/Jackson/Branch/Carmichael foursome not in the HoF. In fact, I'd probably consider Gene Washington (the 'Niners one) better than Curtis also.

[Gary Najman]

Where would Isaac Curtis fit into a discussion about WRs of the 70s? For some reason, he reminds me of a lesser Paul Warfield; a game breaker who never caught a ton of passes in a single season.

During his first 3-4 years, he absolutely killed the Browns on a regular basis.

In his first 8 games vs. Cleveland (from 1973-1976), Curtis caught 33 passes for 739 yards (22.39 yards per reception) and 11 touchdowns (he scored at least one touchdown in each of the 8 games). In the next 15 games against Cleveland, Curtis only caught 1 touchdown pass.