2023 FInalists, released 1PM EDT 12/27/22

[JohnTurney]

Coach/Contributor:

Roone Arledge
Don Coryell
Mike Holmgren
Frank “Bucko” Kilroy
Robert Kraft
Art Modell
Buddy Parker
Dan Reeves
Art Rooney,Jr.
Mike Shanahan
Clark Shaughnessy
John Wooten


Senior:

Ken Anderson
Maxie Baughan
Randy Gradishar
Chuck Howley
Cecil Isbell
Joe Klecko
Bob Kuechenberg
Eddie Meador
Tommy Nobis
Ken Riley
Sterling Sharpe
Everson Walls

[Bryan]

Coach/Contributor:

Roone Arledge
Don Coryell
Mike Holmgren
Frank “Bucko” Kilroy
Robert Kraft
Art Modell
Buddy Parker
Dan Reeves
Art Rooney,Jr.
Mike Shanahan
Clark Shaughnessy
John Wooten


Senior:

Ken Anderson
Maxie Baughan
Randy Gradishar
Chuck Howley
Cecil Isbell
Joe Klecko
Bob Kuechenberg
Eddie Meador
Tommy Nobis
Ken Riley
Sterling Sharpe
Everson Walls

Is this what they mean by "Christmas in July"? The bolded people are the only ones who I think should be in the HOF (either this year or eventually). I don't think the other candidates warrant enshrinement.

[Ken Crippen]

Isbell over Dilweg? Seriously? Of course Myers needed to make sure Klecko was included.

[Brian wolf]

Sorry Ken ... maybe things change but not looking great for super-seniors Dilweg, Lewellen, Emerson or Wistert.

Wow Bryan, youre really tough ... A No vote for Parker, Shanahan and Holmgren ? I could understand Reeves but did you agree on Levy ?

I understand your thinking on the players but I like Meador as well ...

[Brian wolf]

Revised 2023 Senior Wishlist

Howley
Gradishar
Meador

2023 Senior Prediction

Gradishar
Riley
Klecko

[Bob Gill]

Don Coryell
Randy Gradishar
Chuck Howley
Sterling Sharpe

The bolded people are the only ones who I think should be in the HOF (either this year or eventually). I don't think the other candidates warrant enshrinement.

Agree completely. I don't think some of them even warrant discussion.

[Bryan]

Don Coryell
Randy Gradishar
Chuck Howley
Sterling Sharpe

The bolded people are the only ones who I think should be in the HOF (either this year or eventually). I don't think the other candidates warrant enshrinement.

Agree completely. I don't think some of them even warrant discussion.

Yeah, its like you cover the same ground with some of these guys. I know Coryell gets resistance because he didn't play for a championship much less win one, but he really influenced the game, even going back to his college days. Sharpe was a HOF player. Maybe you don't like the fact that he got injured midway through his career, but you cannot dispute he played at a HOF level. Gradishar and Howley are the guys who, IMO, are what this whole "Seniors" thing is for. They are guys who, for whatever reason, got lost in the shuffle and deserved to be in Canton by the regular process. The regular process failed, so the Seniors thing is around to fix the problem.

As you said, most of these guys don't even warrant discussion. They didn't warrant any discussion when they played, the didn't warrant any discussion when they retired, but now we are being asked to completely re-examine careers. I'm sorry, but while Ken Riley was a good CB, at no point was he ever a HOF type player. Tommy Nobis in the HOF? That's almost like a romantic, revisionist view of history. He had a couple nice seasons at the start of his career, had some injuries, and kind of tailed off. Nice run stuffer, average against the pass. Nowhere near the level of Butkus or Nitschke or Lanier. I would say that some of the adulation he received early in his NFL career was carryover from his college days. At least someone like Lee Roy Jordan can point to some level of consistency and accomplishment. I don't want to turn this into a bashing contest, but there is a reason that most of these guys aren't already in the HOF.

[Bryan]

Sorry Ken ... maybe things change but not looking great for super-seniors Dilweg, Lewellen, Emerson or Wistert.

Wow Bryan, youre really tough ... A No vote for Parker, Shanahan and Holmgren ? I could understand Reeves but did you agree on Levy ?

I understand your thinking on the players but I like Meador as well ...

I prefer a big hall to a small hall, but the last few years of selections has me somewhat indifferent to the HOF. A small part of the problem is how often the HOF messes with the process to make more slots available for non-players (and more slots available in general), but the main problem is the composition of the selection committee. In the past, the typical representative was the grizzled beat reporter from that team's city. Today, you don't have beat reporters, you don't have grizzled sportswriters who can provide historical perspective, but you still have a limited amount of selectors who typically aren't well-versed in the game's history. So, instead of having historians weighing in on Lavvie Dilweg, you get something more random like a 12-member "jury of your peers". If these selectors aren't any more qualified than others, I'd rather have 1000 people vote for the HOF and at least get some type of consensus. You'd probably avoid that random year where Jimbo Covert gets enshrined.

Anyway...here is what I think:

Levy - wouldn't have voted for him, but I give him credit for being innovative and creating a conference powerhouse. Ran the Wing-T at KC, ran the K-Gun at Buffalo and let Jim Kelly call the plays. Had 7 double-digit win seasons in a 9 year span at Buffalo. That is consistent excellence.

Parker - own worst enemy. Built a tough Lions team then quit. I didn't know this, but he actually spent more time at Pittsburgh then at Detroit. Traded draft choices for veterans, competed for the division title once in 8 years, and basically mortgaged the future. Was he a great coach? Or did his multiple trades work out in Detroit and not so much in Pittsburgh? I view him as the Joe Thomas of coaches. I respect him, but kind of wonky.

Holmgren - built a SB winning team in GB, then the very next year choked away a SB that the Packers shouldn't have lost. Then left for Seattle. Similar to Parker, Holmgren spent more time in SEA (10 years) than in GB (7 years). Is his time in SEA a HOF level performance? I don't think so. They were usually good at sneaking into the expanded playoffs and losing in the divisional round. He actually coached 7 years in Seattle before winning his first playoff game...remarkable stuff.

Shanahan - unless people think Mike McCarthy is actually a good coach, I would posit that Mike Shanahan is the most overrated coach in NFL history. He was a mild disaster with the Raiders, he was a major disaster with the Redskins. Holmgren choked away a SB game, Shanahan ruined RGIII's career. Mike Shanahan coached for 20 years, and won a playoff game in 3 of those 20 years. I can't even comprehend that level of Jeff Fisher mediocrity. Denver's postseason loss to the Jags in 1996 was an upset of monumental proportions....at the time it was incomprehensible. The Broncos were 12.5 point favorites, and they lost despite having zero turnovers. Nothing flukish...just a failure of preparation.

[JeffreyMiller]

Gosh, has anyone told Marv his place in the hall is up for reconsideration?

[Bryan]

Gosh, has anyone told Marv his place in the hall is up for reconsideration?

Maybe I am being too harsh on Levy, or holding my memory of coaching the Chicago Blitz against him (Vince Evans tho). I am comparing Levy to Bud Grant, and there really isn't that much difference between the excellence of Buffalo and Minnesota. So Levy does hold his own against other HOF coaches. But I'm the guy who also argued against Hank Stram and George Allen being in the HOF; too many coaches and non-players being enshrined, IMO.