Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

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Hail Casares
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Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by Hail Casares »

Learned for the first time today about him. I believe he is still the youngest player to score a TD in an NFL game at barely over 20 years old after entering the league under a hardship waiver.

I looked up some pictures of him and he might rival Earl Campbell for the largest thighs I have ever seen.

Anybody with memories or insights on him and his interesting(short) career?
SixtiesFan
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by SixtiesFan »

I remember him. He was said to be a fast as Sayers in straightaway speed in literature on the 60s Bears, but tore up a knee. In 1969 Livingston had a good year for the Saints, had another knee injury in 1970 and left football. I looked him up and he's still living.
Shipley
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by Shipley »

Here's what they wrote about him in Pro Football 1970 by Jack Zanger: "A powerful 6-1, 230-pound runner who spent five seasons with the Chicago Bears before falling into disfavor with George Halas, Andy Livingston came to the Saints just before the start of the 1969 season. He subsequently proved to be one of their most prized acquisitions. Andy pounded out 761 yards on 181 carries for a 4.2-yard average to lead the club in rushing and finish eighth in the league. Andy's debut with the Bears in 1964 was spectacular, as he wound up with 363 yards gained and an impressive 5.8 average. He was out all of 1966 with a knee injury and when he returned the following year he was reduced to being a reserve. After the performance he gave last year, though, the Bears undoubtedly wouldn't mind having him back."
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Bryan
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by Bryan »

IIIRC, there was controversy surrounding Livingston's exemption because Livingston was never part of a draft pool. Rozelle granted Livingston his 'hardship waiver' and then let Halas and the Bears sign him. Just a complete neglect of the rules by Rozelle to favor an owner, kind of like the Bernie Kosar shenanigans.

Trivia: from 1935 -1989 the NFL granted only two 'hardship waivers' to their age/education requirement. One was to Andy Livingston...name the other player.
Jay Z
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by Jay Z »

Bryan wrote:IIIRC, there was controversy surrounding Livingston's exemption because Livingston was never part of a draft pool. Rozelle granted Livingston his 'hardship waiver' and then let Halas and the Bears sign him. Just a complete neglect of the rules by Rozelle to favor an owner, kind of like the Bernie Kosar shenanigans.

Trivia: from 1935 -1989 the NFL granted only two 'hardship waivers' to their age/education requirement. One was to Andy Livingston...name the other player.
Charley Powell?
JohnTurney
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by JohnTurney »

Livingston was passing bad checks--skipping classes in JC, Whizzer White (not the judge, the other one - Danny White's father) called Halas
and said give this kid a shot, somehow Rozelle gave a hardship exemption-somehow it worked out
SixtiesFan
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by SixtiesFan »

JohnTurney wrote:Livingston was passing bad checks--skipping classes in JC, Whizzer White (not the judge, the other one - Danny White's father) called Halas
and said give this kid a shot, somehow Rozelle gave a hardship exemption-somehow it worked out
I don't see anything wrong with giving the exemption.
JohnTurney
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by JohnTurney »

SixtiesFan wrote: I don't see anything wrong with giving the exemption.
Don't think my opinions matter much though, it happened almost 60 years ago
anyway. But, for what little it's worth I don't see a problem.
Maybe someone else knows all the facts, I sure don't.
Brian wolf
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by Brian wolf »

Cookie Gilchrist should have been a young superstar as well but the NFL refused to let him earn a contract or living, so soon out of high school.
Like Moses Malone from a far more physical game in the NBA then compared to now, Gilchrist could have been the future of the NFL but the pro game was determined to have athletes try to get four years of college eligibility, without thinking that many athletes needed to work in the real world, especially if they had no means for college.

Going to Canada and being a rugby then CFL star--at different positions--before bullying through AFL defenses, should easily have put him into the HOF but Gilchrist remains the poster child for the mercenary player of yesteryear, who gets penalized for playing professional football away from the NFL, where a Pro Football Hall Of Fame fails to grasp his understanding of bringing different fans to the ballparks and helping a fledging league survive and thrive after he has left the game.

In some ways, his power running exploits and jackhammer blocking ability--a skill missing from the super-human ability of Jim Brown-- saved the AFL way before Namath's networks-tainted contract came into play, and had his coaches been more creative, he could have starred as a two-way player at critical times but fortunately for the Bills, they're young defense developed along with him and gave the team three straight championship opportunities, though Gilchrist missed the second championship after clashing with his head coach.
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Hail Casares
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Re: Andy Livingston Bears/Saints (1964-1970)

Post by Hail Casares »

Shipley wrote:Here's what they wrote about him in Pro Football 1970 by Jack Zanger: "A powerful 6-1, 230-pound runner who spent five seasons with the Chicago Bears before falling into disfavor with George Halas, Andy Livingston came to the Saints just before the start of the 1969 season. He subsequently proved to be one of their most prized acquisitions. Andy pounded out 761 yards on 181 carries for a 4.2-yard average to lead the club in rushing and finish eighth in the league. Andy's debut with the Bears in 1964 was spectacular, as he wound up with 363 yards gained and an impressive 5.8 average. He was out all of 1966 with a knee injury and when he returned the following year he was reduced to being a reserve. After the performance he gave last year, though, the Bears undoubtedly wouldn't mind having him back."
I like that the implication by Zanger was that Livingston had done something wrong to fall out of favor with Halas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/14/spor ... -play.html

"Livingston quickly proved he could compete on the field; off the field, he was no match for Halas. Two weeks into training camp, when his talent became apparent, Livingston said Halas persuaded him to sign a two-year contract worth $14,500."

"When training camp broke and the team returned to Chicago, Halas told Livingston to get some things he needed and have the merchants call Halas. ''I went out and began to accumulate these things and had them call George Halas,'' Livingston said. He bought a car. He bought 12 suits, rented an apartment with $3,000 worth of carpeting and $8,000 worth of furniture. ''At the end of my first year of playing pro football in Chicago, I owed George Halas $14,000,'' he said.

At the end of his second season, he said he owed $18,000. By 1968, Livingston said he was making $100 a week because Halas contended that he owed him money."
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