Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby Brian wolf » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:16 am

To me, Allen could have successfully coached in the NFL, even at 68 in 1986. Take away the Philadelphia USFL franchise and Allen may have won the first two league championships but had he been hired by an NFL team in 85 or 86 like Atlanta, Philly, Detroit, Houston, SD or Indy, could he have turned a team around ?

As for the Bills, they let Knox go where he rebuilds the Seahawks, while an Allen protege, Marv Levy has to finally stop the bleeding. Would Jim Kelly have reported to Knox with a contract extension with the Bills in 1983 ?
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby racepug » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:44 pm

I became a Bills fan during that time frame. When I first started following the N.F.L. (after the Seahawks came into existence) the Bills were very poor. Matter of fact the Bills played the Seahawks in, I believe, 1977 (the Seahawks' 2nd season of existence) and the Seahawks REAMED them to the tune of 56 - 17. That's how bad the Bills were. Then they got better but couldn't get past many hurdles in the playoffs. In particular I remember a loss to the Chargers in San Diego (back then I had a real dislike for the Chargers - mostly because of their "treatment" back then of my Seahawks) - a near upset win by the Bills that might very well have become an actual upset had starting QB Joe Ferguson not been limping around on a bad ankle all game. Even so the Bills held the lead on the Chargers in that one until late (if memory serves). I pulled for the Bills again after their next "revival" (in the late '80s). I'm still a little sad that they never won a S.B. (they still could some day, of course - but to go to 4 straight and not win any of them? Ugh). Now they're good again, of course - but they'll be up against Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs for the foreseeable future, now.
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby Brian wolf » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:21 am

Ferguson was tough in that playoff loss to the Chargers in the 80/81 postseason but should have been replaced because his interceptions were killers. The Bills hung tough and gave the Bengals all they could handle the next year in the playoffs but 1982 was just a bad season all-around. Knox spent his entire career winning without a great QB.
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby GameBeforeTheMoney » Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:25 pm

Knox always seemed underrated to me. Good coach, good record. Never made a SB but made teams competitive.
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby Bryan » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:56 pm

Brian wolf wrote:I never understood why George Allen wasnt rehired into the NFL in 1986 ?


I think one of the reasons why Allen never returned to the NFL was the rise of the GM position. Allen always had total control of the football operation, and I think by the 1980's the GMs started consolidating power. None of them wanted to cede control to George Allen. I think that is why Allen went to the Chicago Blitz in the USFL; he could run the whole show by himself...something he couldn't do in the NFL anymore.
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby racepug » Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:27 pm

Brian wolf wrote:Ferguson was tough in that playoff loss to the Chargers in the 80/81 postseason but should have been replaced because his interceptions were killers. The Bills hung tough and gave the Bengals all they could handle the next year in the playoffs but 1982 was just a bad season all-around.
After "Ground Chuck" left for Seattle the Bills sank pretty low again, and in short order. I remember them being quite poor in the mid-'80s. Heck, they were so bad during that time that off the top of my head I don't even remember which head coach(es) they had between Knox and Levy!
Brian wolf wrote:Knox spent his entire career winning without a great QB.
You make a good point but Lawrence McCutcheon in the book "The Super '70s," when asked why the Rams didn't win any S.B.s under Knox, opined that Chuck Knox was "too predictable" come playoff time. Did Chuck Knox really lack confidence that much in his QBs or was he simply too "married" to an old-school style of play (hence his nickname)?
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby Brian wolf » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:51 pm

Probably both, Racepug. Knox wanted to run the ball to help his defense and shorten the game but his QBs have to make the big throws in clutch situations to keep drives going and the QBs failed, especially with a great deep threat in Harold Jackson. Special teams killed their playoff games as well.
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby Brian wolf » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:03 pm

Before being an NFL Head Coach, Knox had spent a lot of his coaching life either going against or helping Joe Namath develop ... Had Knox tried to obtain Joe in 1973, rather than 1977, could Joe have blended with the running game and helped give the Rams and Knox a championship ?
Would Weeb Ewbank, in his final season with the Jets, had let Knox obtain Namath? I doubt it, since Knox left the Jets in 1967 to coach in the NFL ...
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby Brian wolf » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Though it sounds funny, Jim Zorn reminded me of a left-handed John Unitas, winning with clutch plays. Did injuries or lack of confidence convince Chuck Knox that Dave Krieg would be a better option ? How did Krieg take the job from Zorn, though from what I remembered back then, Zorn was getting hurt more ?
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Re: Chuck Knox's Buffalo Bills

Postby racepug » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:43 pm

Brian wolf wrote:Though it sounds funny, Jim Zorn reminded me of a left-handed John Unitas, winning with clutch plays. Did injuries or lack of confidence convince Chuck Knox that Dave Krieg would be a better option ? How did Krieg take the job from Zorn, though from what I remembered back then, Zorn was getting hurt more ?
Well, for one thing, Jim Zorn suffered a broken ankle against the Raiders in a game in the Kingdome in either 1981 or 1982 (if memory serves) and also I seem to recall that Jim Zorn started to suffer from "happy feet" - although I'm not sure if that was more before or after that injury - and I think that Chuck Knox started to basically lose faith in Jim Zorn's ability to lead the team. [BTW - I always thought of Jim Zorn more as a left-handed Fran Tarkenton and the two met on the field in 1976 (the Vikings won, but just barely)!]
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