Aaron Rodgers

Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby DavidSollender » Wed May 05, 2021 4:48 pm

In addition to everything else stated about Holmgren's departure from Green Bay, he was also anxious to return to the west coast and closer to his Bay Area roots.

IMO, his qualifications for the HOF fall short if you only consider his accomplishments as a head coach. Which begs the question - can someone be an HOF coach based solely on accomplishments as an assistant (Wade Phillips comes to mind). While I'm asking this as a general question, Holmgren's accomplishments as an OC in San Francisco, when added to his tenures in Green Bay and Seattle, MIGHT be enough to make him a more credible candidate.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby GameBeforeTheMoney » Wed May 05, 2021 6:13 pm

DavidSollender wrote:In addition to everything else stated about Holmgren's departure from Green Bay, he was also anxious to return to the west coast and closer to his Bay Area roots.

IMO, his qualifications for the HOF fall short if you only consider his accomplishments as a head coach. Which begs the question - can someone be an HOF coach based solely on accomplishments as an assistant (Wade Phillips comes to mind). While I'm asking this as a general question, Holmgren's accomplishments as an OC in San Francisco, when added to his tenures in Green Bay and Seattle, MIGHT be enough to make him a more credible candidate.


That's a really good HOF question. How much should assistant positions factor into induction? Blanton Collier also comes to mind. Dan Reeves.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby GameBeforeTheMoney » Wed May 05, 2021 6:32 pm

Bryan wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:1979 was the major example, when Starr ignored Red Cochrane. Then, in 81, he took Rich Campbell. Lloyd Eaton, their West Coast scout, came out and said that he couldn't play (this was after they met with Ronnie Lott):


Rich Campbell was so bad he never even saw the field. IIRC, he has the fewest career pass attempts (68) of any QB selected in the 1st round, and it's not like Campbell was taken at the end of the round. He was the 6th overall pick. How often has a team drafted a QB in the 1st round and the guy ends up never starting a game?


Here's some info on Campbell if you're interested...interesting story https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/24/nfl-d ... ay-packers


I remember when they picked him and I was like, "Why did they draft a backup quarterback in the first round?" Lynn Dickey and David Whitehurst were entrenched as the starter for several years before and after. Again, I was pretty young so my memory is fuzzy but Dickey was a pretty good quarterback. Not HOF or HOVG but he was above average. I remember David Whitehurst being not half bad either, but again I was a kid so I couldn't really tell....but I liked both. Dickey seemed like he was clearly the top dog for a number of years and it didn't surprise that Campbell didn't play much. I have a very early memory of Dickey breaking his leg against the Rams I think but I couldn't tell you if that was before or after the Campbell pick. I think David Whitehurst filled in

With Dickey there, I can also see why they didn't pick Montana (putting myself back in 1979), as good of a pick as he would have been, because I think they felt like they had two good starters in Dickey and Whitehurst. If I remember right they had tied for first place the year before but didn't go to the playoffs. Felt like to me (again, I'm just an elementary school kid at the time so please don't rip on me) felt like the QB position was something the Packers felt good about between Dickey and Whitehurst when Montana was available.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby Brian wolf » Wed May 05, 2021 7:31 pm

A SB victory and two NFC Championships is a pretty good resume for Holmgren, not to mention the coaches that he mentored into successful careers. Yes, Montana was great before Holmgren got to SF in 1986 but he also helped Joe achieve one of the greatest seasons any QB has ever had in 1989/90 and turned Steve Young into a pocket passer as well, while also helping Matt Hasselbeck have a successful career ...
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby Jay Z » Thu May 06, 2021 12:13 am

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote:
Bryan wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:1979 was the major example, when Starr ignored Red Cochrane. Then, in 81, he took Rich Campbell. Lloyd Eaton, their West Coast scout, came out and said that he couldn't play (this was after they met with Ronnie Lott):


Rich Campbell was so bad he never even saw the field. IIRC, he has the fewest career pass attempts (68) of any QB selected in the 1st round, and it's not like Campbell was taken at the end of the round. He was the 6th overall pick. How often has a team drafted a QB in the 1st round and the guy ends up never starting a game?


Here's some info on Campbell if you're interested...interesting story https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/24/nfl-d ... ay-packers


I remember when they picked him and I was like, "Why did they draft a backup quarterback in the first round?" Lynn Dickey and David Whitehurst were entrenched as the starter for several years before and after. Again, I was pretty young so my memory is fuzzy but Dickey was a pretty good quarterback. Not HOF or HOVG but he was above average. I remember David Whitehurst being not half bad either, but again I was a kid so I couldn't really tell....but I liked both. Dickey seemed like he was clearly the top dog for a number of years and it didn't surprise that Campbell didn't play much. I have a very early memory of Dickey breaking his leg against the Rams I think but I couldn't tell you if that was before or after the Campbell pick. I think David Whitehurst filled in

With Dickey there, I can also see why they didn't pick Montana (putting myself back in 1979), as good of a pick as he would have been, because I think they felt like they had two good starters in Dickey and Whitehurst. If I remember right they had tied for first place the year before but didn't go to the playoffs. Felt like to me (again, I'm just an elementary school kid at the time so please don't rip on me) felt like the QB position was something the Packers felt good about between Dickey and Whitehurst when Montana was available.


Dickey broke his leg on the last play of the game against the Rams in 1977. The leg didn't heal properly and had to be re-broken I believe, costing Dickey all of 1978 as well. Whitehurst would start 34 straight games as a result.

The article about Campbell is certainly interesting. Neither Favre nor Rodgers were finished products coming into the pro game. Rodgers had all his mechanics reworked extensively in the pros. As far as arm strength goes, it's not quite like throwing a baseball, where MPH is going to be tough to acquire. There are some things the QBs can do to improve in that regard.

I have Joel Buchsbaum's Scout's Notebook from 1981. Buchsbaum rated Campbell second to Neil Lomax, but wrote about him more than any other QB. Buchsbaum has lots of good things to say about Campbell's throwing, calling him a "great pure passer", but had concerns about his lack of quickness and flexibility, a knee injury that cut short his senior year, and lack of take-charge leadership. From that article, it does seem like Campbell didn't have the personality to fight through the issues of not playing right away and having to prove himself again. Plus his skills were exactly what the existing quarterback (Dickey) had. Dickey would play five more years as a regular, while Campbell let his skills wither and was out of football before Dickey ever left Green Bay.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby rhickok1109 » Thu May 06, 2021 5:54 am

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote:
Bryan wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:1979 was the major example, when Starr ignored Red Cochrane. Then, in 81, he took Rich Campbell. Lloyd Eaton, their West Coast scout, came out and said that he couldn't play (this was after they met with Ronnie Lott):


Rich Campbell was so bad he never even saw the field. IIRC, he has the fewest career pass attempts (68) of any QB selected in the 1st round, and it's not like Campbell was taken at the end of the round. He was the 6th overall pick. How often has a team drafted a QB in the 1st round and the guy ends up never starting a game?


Here's some info on Campbell if you're interested...interesting story https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/24/nfl-d ... ay-packers


I remember when they picked him and I was like, "Why did they draft a backup quarterback in the first round?" Lynn Dickey and David Whitehurst were entrenched as the starter for several years before and after. Again, I was pretty young so my memory is fuzzy but Dickey was a pretty good quarterback. Not HOF or HOVG but he was above average. I remember David Whitehurst being not half bad either, but again I was a kid so I couldn't really tell....but I liked both. Dickey seemed like he was clearly the top dog for a number of years and it didn't surprise that Campbell didn't play much. I have a very early memory of Dickey breaking his leg against the Rams I think but I couldn't tell you if that was before or after the Campbell pick. I think David Whitehurst filled in

With Dickey there, I can also see why they didn't pick Montana (putting myself back in 1979), as good of a pick as he would have been, because I think they felt like they had two good starters in Dickey and Whitehurst. If I remember right they had tied for first place the year before but didn't go to the playoffs. Felt like to me (again, I'm just an elementary school kid at the time so please don't rip on me) felt like the QB position was something the Packers felt good about between Dickey and Whitehurst when Montana was available.


As a Packer fan, let me assure you that Whitehurst was terrible.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby Citizen » Fri May 07, 2021 10:09 am

Whitehurst had some moments. Given a Lofton to throw to and a reliable RB in Middleton, he had a decent 1978. And he he won two of three filling in when Dickey was hurt a few years later.

But he was an option QB in college and fell into the Packers starting job long before he was ready. He was never destined to be more than a serviceable backup.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby rhickok1109 » Sat May 08, 2021 8:39 am

DavidSollender wrote:In addition to everything else stated about Holmgren's departure from Green Bay, he was also anxious to return to the west coast and closer to his Bay Area roots.

IMO, his qualifications for the HOF fall short if you only consider his accomplishments as a head coach. Which begs the question - can someone be an HOF coach based solely on accomplishments as an assistant (Wade Phillips comes to mind). While I'm asking this as a general question, Holmgren's accomplishments as an OC in San Francisco, when added to his tenures in Green Bay and Seattle, MIGHT be enough to make him a more credible candidate.

For me, as a Packer fan, Holmgren falls well short of the HOF because of his abysmal coaching performance in SB XXXII, when he abandoned the running game almost entirely in the second half after Levens had averaged 5.5 YPA in the first half.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby Brian wolf » Sat May 08, 2021 2:27 pm

Though Wolf made the HOF, that bitter SB loss to Denver affected the legacy of both Favre and Holmgren in my opinion. Did the Packers just take the Broncos too lightly, after beating them 41-6 just the year before, or did the Broncos IMPROVE that much ? There were rumors and grumblings amongst bettors that the Networks, especially NBC, were tired of the NFC blowouts in Super Bowls, and boom ... a great SB win for Elway and the AFC. Yes, Holmgren was outcoached, but though Freeman and Levins had great games, I didnt feel Favre went to Brooks enough but it didnt matter ... The Packer defense was manhandled at the line of scrimmage and some Packer players felt Holliday dogged it after leaving the game with either exhaustion or injury. White was taken out of the game as well. There were no more bodies to stop the Bronco running game.
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Re: Aaron Rodgers

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Sat May 08, 2021 3:07 pm

Brian wolf wrote:Though Wolf made the HOF, that bitter SB loss to Denver affected the legacy of both Favre and Holmgren in my opinion. Did the Packers just take the Broncos too lightly, after beating them 41-6 just the year before, or did the Broncos IMPROVE that much ? There were rumors and grumblings amongst bettors that the Networks, especially NBC, were tired of the NFC blowouts in Super Bowls, and boom ... a great SB win for Elway and the AFC. Yes, Holmgren was outcoached, but though Freeman and Levins had great games, I didnt feel Favre went to Brooks enough but it didnt matter ... The Packer defense was manhandled at the line of scrimmage and some Packer players felt Holliday dogged it after leaving the game with either exhaustion or injury. White was taken out of the game as well. There were no more bodies to stop the Bronco running game.


Elway didn't play in that 41-6 game, and TD only played the second half. Denver had everything wrapped up by then.
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