John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby 74_75_78_79_ » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm

I’d like to think that if Terrell Davis is in Canton, why not Sterling? Yes, TD got two Rings and a SBMVP in his short career but still.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Reaser » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Bryan wrote:...I was happy when Lofton made the HOF, but I thought Sharpe was better than Lofton. I also think Sharpe was superior to his HOF peer group of Tim Brown, Andre Reed, Cris Carter & Michael Irvin.


Agreed. I have him above all of them, also.

Unfortunately people like career total stats over how great a player was on the field and claim playing more than the average career length is a "short-career". Personally, I saw more than enough of him to know where I rate him in his era.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Jeremy Crowhurst » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:29 pm

Bryan wrote:
Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:Thanks! Yeah, that certainly makes more sense.


Makes more sense than what, exactly? Your initial snark fail about Taylor making the Pro Bowl as a returner? If anyone cares at this point, Taylor was selected to the Pro Bowl as a WR, pulled out with 'injury', and was replaced by Mark Carrier.


Second, Wikipedia and PFR both have him making that Pro Bowl as a returner. When you do a cursory look at it, then that makes sense: he made it as a returner the year before, he was eleventh in the NFC in receiving yards, tied for 3rd in TDs, but that's no guarantee. I looked but couldn't find any announcement of the positional breakdowns online, and my 1989 Record and Fact Book got wrecked in a flood. So I was genuinely grateful to Conace for looking that up and posting it. It certainly made sense once you remember that the announcements at that time came after week 14, when Taylor's numbers were quite a bit higher up the ladder.

-Edited by Moderators
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby JWL » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:40 pm

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:. . .


Well, maybe some have left for those reasons. I still read the posts (glance at them is probably more accurate) but I have had little to no interest in the NFL since the draft. I only knew there was an NFL game last night when I saw stuff on Twitter about it two hours before the game started.

Hopefully, I am back on board by Week 1. The anthem stuff, the helmet rule stuff, Goodell's nonsense, the Patriots never-ending greatness. . . I need time away from the NFL.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Brian wolf » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:52 pm

Great thread, especially with Isaac Bruce popping off about he and Holt being the best wide receiver tandem ever.

For me, the best receiver tandem was Berry and Moore.
Due to winning SBs, I would put Swann and Stallworth over Rice and Taylor but people have to remember that they won two SBs before the 77/78 rule changes, while developing with Bradshaw. In terms of winning as a team, Speedie and Lavelli have no peers though Fears and Hirsch went to four NFL championship games themselves. People forget the great Packer tandem of McGee and Dowler as well.

Harrison/Wayne, Carter/Moss, Monk/Clark, Duper/Clayton, the list goes on ...
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby GameBeforeTheMoney » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:49 pm

I'd take either and be happy....Kind of a bit different.....I was really young when Swann and Stallworth played -- I remember SB 13 and 14 but not 10....so, I might be wrong but I think the biggest difference between the two groups is that Rice was phenomenal after the catch....I remember Madden coming up with "RAC" yards and I think later it was called "YAC" yards -- running after the catch, yardage after the catch to tell you how many yards Rice made after the catch....I remember Swann and Stallworth being fantastic at getting open and making catches but I don't remember them running over people afterward like I remember Rice doing that.....not that Rice/Taylor were better because of that, but that's another difference in the 80s that I don't remember in the 70s -- in the 80s it was kind of the start of get the ball in certain receivers hands with the intent of them running for extra yardage afterward....again, I was really young so I might not remember as well, but I don't remember plays designed like that in the 70s....Overall, I think choosing between Rice/Taylor and Swann/Stallworth, you pretty much win either way...both sets were clutch, too...

I remember Sterling Sharpe well and probably watched most of the games of his career....I never thought of comparing him to Rice before but Sharpe was the best receiver I remember on the Packers (and I remember James Lofton), and you'd have talking in terms of Jerry Rice-level in terms of how much IMPACT one individual player had on a game. By that I mean Sharpe's impact on each game was perhaps as great as any receiver I can remember. The defense had to have a major focus on him every game and he still succeeded most of the time. At one time I think he held the record for most catches for a season in NFL history. I know that he had a reception in EVERY single game from Week 10 of 1988 through the 1994 season. And if you look at his stats, I'd bet the vast majority of those games were at least 3-4 catches. Had he fully played out his career and played at that level on the Packers SB winner vs NE, there isn't a doubt in my mind that he'd remembered as an all-time great.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Brian wolf » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 pm

Sharpe will be an interesting decision in upcoming years for the senior committees because he was great when he played and the elections of Davis and Easley will help his cause.
Though I would like to see Billy Howton or Jim Benton get voted in before Sharpe, I think only Branch, Jackson and Ellard are ahead of him and many people believe Morgan should be in that group as well. After the next three elections by 2024, hopefully two seniors per year can get elected, though I believe the HOF would rather get more nepotistic owners voted in ...
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby rhickok1109 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:48 am

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote:I'd take either and be happy....Kind of a bit different.....I was really young when Swann and Stallworth played -- I remember SB 13 and 14 but not 10....so, I might be wrong but I think the biggest difference between the two groups is that Rice was phenomenal after the catch....I remember Madden coming up with "RAC" yards and I think later it was called "YAC" yards -- running after the catch, yardage after the catch to tell you how many yards Rice made after the catch....I remember Swann and Stallworth being fantastic at getting open and making catches but I don't remember them running over people afterward like I remember Rice doing that.....not that Rice/Taylor were better because of that, but that's another difference in the 80s that I don't remember in the 70s -- in the 80s it was kind of the start of get the ball in certain receivers hands with the intent of them running for extra yardage afterward....again, I was really young so I might not remember as well, but I don't remember plays designed like that in the 70s....Overall, I think choosing between Rice/Taylor and Swann/Stallworth, you pretty much win either way...both sets were clutch, too...

I remember Sterling Sharpe well and probably watched most of the games of his career....I never thought of comparing him to Rice before but Sharpe was the best receiver I remember on the Packers (and I remember James Lofton), and you'd have talking in terms of Jerry Rice-level in terms of how much IMPACT one individual player had on a game. By that I mean Sharpe's impact on each game was perhaps as great as any receiver I can remember. The defense had to have a major focus on him every game and he still succeeded most of the time. At one time I think he held the record for most catches for a season in NFL history. I know that he had a reception in EVERY single game from Week 10 of 1988 through the 1994 season. And if you look at his stats, I'd bet the vast majority of those games were at least 3-4 catches. Had he fully played out his career and played at that level on the Packers SB winner vs NE, there isn't a doubt in my mind that he'd remembered as an all-time great.

I was in the Lambeau press box for the 1992 Packer-Bear game and I happened to sit next to Paul Wiggin, who was then an advance scout for the Vikings. (He was there because the Vikes were playing the Bears on MNF the following week.)
Wiggin and I chatted a bit during breaks and sometimes exchanged remarks during the action.
At one point, in a 3rd-and-long situation, Favre rifled a pass to Sharpe on the sideline, a good 5 yards short of the first down. A cornerback and safety were right there with him, but Sharpe muscled his way through them to get the first down.
Wiggin commented, "That's why Sharpe is better than Rice. He can do anything Rice can but Rice never would have got that first down."
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby GameBeforeTheMoney » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:49 am

That's a great story. There were so many ways that Sharpe made plays. I remember him even lining up at QB for a play.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Sonny9 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:47 pm

L.C. Greenwood wrote:
74_75_78_79_ wrote:I think had Jerry Rice played in the ’70s (more specifically, before ’78), he would have still been...Jerry Rice! Taylor would have, at least, been respectable. However, just imagine Swann playing throughout most of the ’80s, especially with the right QB throwing to him! There were still very great defenses in the ’80s but he not getting mugged as much. And we know how great Stallworth still was without Bradshaw.

Rice - or Hutson - is still the GOAT WR in any era but tandem-wise with all very much due respect to JT, I’ll take S&S! IMO, any superb ’80s defense (’85 Bears, ’89 Forty Niners, etc) would have had fits against Bradshaw-to-Stallworth or Bradshaw-to-Swann.



What often gets lost in these discussions is how HOF receivers like Swann and Warfield had their individual numbers suppressed by both the era they played in, and the nature of the teams they played on, we simply cannot rely 100% on career numbers in this discussion. It made no sense whatsoever for the 70s Steelers and Dolphins to fling the ball around, when they could control teams with a rushing attack. With Swann & Stallworth, that passing attack could kill defenses both inside and outside, short and long. Had Swann been on another team(s) as the primary option, his career numbers would have been greatly increased, right there with the elites. And it was no surprise whatsoever Swann & Stallworth shredded quality defenses in the postseason, often without big rushing days from Franco Harris. Swann was smart to retire early, he had sustained many concussions, and had a strong post-football career lined up.
I felt Swanns was borderline Hall of Fame and was helped because he stayed in the public eye. Playing in Super Bowls and being active in broadcasting.
It depends on how one defines shredded. I checked his games with 90 yards or more in the regular season 18 games. Excluding blowouts I came across only 1 game where the Steelers didn't run well. 11/16/80 vs Cle 27-79

Not unusual imo since they were a run team. It's a tough call. With another offense he could have put up good numbers but others actually did it.
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