John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby 74_75_78_79_ » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:22 am

If you MUST pick one of the two tandems, who’s your choice?

Yes, Rice is best of all four while JT is pretty historically underrated yet, safe to say, not up to par with S&S. He’s the only one of these four not in Canton, yet alone not in HOVG either. But should Taylor end up getting such a nod?
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby JuggernautJ » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:08 pm

As someone born in Pittsburgh, Pa. and who has spent the vast majority of his life in the San Francisco Bay Area there is only one way to answer this question: in the 1970's I choose Swan and Stallworth and in the 1980's I choose Rice and Taylor.
Needless to say, the 70's and 80's were great times to be a 49ers/Steelers fan...

I am a big John Taylor fan and would hope that someday he might receive serious consideration for the HoVG.
Sadly, his short(-ish) career and lack of All-Pros will probably keep him out of Canton. Taylor will be eligible for the Very Good Hall in 2021 (after 25 years out of the game).
Taylor was also an excellent Punt Returner and that should be considered when evaluating him.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ylJo00.htm
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:20 pm

I would take the Stallworth/Swann tandem over Rice and Taylor. Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby JuggernautJ » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:29 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote:...Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.


Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that opinion...
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Rupert Patrick » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:59 am

JuggernautJ wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:...Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.


Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that opinion...


There was also that game-winning TD catch with 34 seconds to play on 1/22/89...
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby bachslunch » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:40 am

Kind of reminds me of the NFL Network Top 10 list of greatest CB duos I saw once which had one of its entries as “Deion Sanders and anybody else.” Gimmicky, but defensible.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby rhickok1109 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:22 am

bachslunch wrote:Kind of reminds me of the NFL Network Top 10 list of greatest CB duos I saw once which had one of its entries as “Deion Sanders and anybody else.” Gimmicky, but defensible.

They should have said "anybody else, provided he's not afraid to tackle."
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby bachslunch » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:30 pm

rhickok1109 wrote:
bachslunch wrote:Kind of reminds me of the NFL Network Top 10 list of greatest CB duos I saw once which had one of its entries as “Deion Sanders and anybody else.” Gimmicky, but defensible.

They should have said "anybody else, provided he's not afraid to tackle."


Fair point. Lucky for him he could cover. If they don’t catch the ball (or don’t throw in his direction), he doesn’t have to tackle his man.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby conace21 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:34 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote:I would take the Stallworth/Swann tandem over Rice and Taylor. Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.


I would take Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark over S&S. I would take Rice and JJ Stokes over S&S. Rice certainly benefited from the WCO, but that doesn't explain away the 10 1st team All Pro selections in 11 years, or the 1200 yards at age 40. For comparisons sake, no other player has ever gained a single yard receiving in his 40's.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Postby Rupert Patrick » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:14 am

conace21 wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:I would take the Stallworth/Swann tandem over Rice and Taylor. Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.


I would take Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark over S&S. I would take Rice and JJ Stokes over S&S. Rice certainly benefited from the WCO, but that doesn't explain away the 10 1st team All Pro selections in 11 years, or the 1200 yards at age 40. For comparisons sake, no other player has ever gained a single yard receiving in his 40's.


Rice is the only retired player in pro football history who you could might be able to cut in half and have two Hall of Fame careers. I remember Bill James once said you could split Rickey Henderson into two Hall of Fame baseball players because he was a tremendous multi-dimensional player, and I think the same could be at least argued of Rice because of the sheer length of his career and the quality he played at throughout his career. Baugh comes close as a QB and a Defense/punter, but punting was different back then. Blanda was a borderline HOF kicker, even with the 2002 points, and a weak HOVG choice at QB; I am not sure he would have gotten into the HOF if he had never thrown a pass in his career. When Tom Brady is thru, I think you would also be able to cut him into two separate Hall of Fame careers.

As far as Jerry Rice is concerned, I think the cut has to occur after either the 1992 or 1993 seasons, where you have a 1985-92 (or 93) Jerry Rice career, and a 1993 (or 94) to 2004 Jerry Rice career. Would both players get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame based on their stats?

1985-1992 Rice 124 games 610 catches, 10273 yards 16.84 YPC 103 TD 2 Super Bowl rings, 7 All Pros, 6 first team All Pro, led NFL in receptions once and in receiving yards three times, led NFL in receiving TD's five times, led NFL in touchdowns once, NFL MVP.

1993-2004 Rice 179 games 939 catches 12622 yards 13.44 YPC 94 TD 1 Super Bowl ring, 6 All Pros, 4 first team All Pro,led NFL in receptions once and in receiving yards three times, led NFL in receiving TD's once, led NFL in touchdowns once.

Here are the stats for 1985-93 and 94-04:

Rice 1985-1993: 140 games, 708 catches, 11776 yards, 16.63 YPC, 118 TD, 2 SB Rings, 8 AP, 7 first team AP, led NFL in receptions once and in receiving yards four times, led NFL in receiving TD's 6 times, led NFL in touchdowns twice. NFL MVP.

Rice 1994-2004: 163 games, 841 catches, 11119 yards, 13.22 YPC, 79 TD, 1 SB Ring, 5 AP, 3 first team AP, led NFL in receptions once and in receiving yards twice.

I think the second Rice really needs the 1993 season to shore up his HOF resume; I think the 1994-2004 Rice is more of a HOVG. I think you can at least argue if you split Rice after the 1992 season, if you had a guy who played eight years with his stats, he goes in via the Gale Sayers route, and I also think the 1993-2004 Jerry Rice would go probably also go into the HOF as a separate player,not as a first ballot, but he would eventually go in.
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