John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

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74_75_78_79_
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by 74_75_78_79_ »

I think had Jerry Rice played in the ’70s (more specifically, before ’78), he would have still been...Jerry Rice! Taylor would have, at least, been respectable. However, just imagine Swann playing throughout most of the ’80s, especially with the right QB throwing to him! There were still very great defenses in the ’80s but he not getting mugged as much. And we know how great Stallworth still was without Bradshaw.

Rice - or Hutson - is still the GOAT WR in any era but tandem-wise with all very much due respect to JT, I’ll take S&S! IMO, any superb ’80s defense (’85 Bears, ’89 Forty Niners, etc) would have had fits against Bradshaw-to-Stallworth or Bradshaw-to-Swann.
ChrisBabcock
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by ChrisBabcock »

Rice - or Hutson - is still the GOAT WR in any era but tandem-wise with all very much due respect to JT, I’ll take S&S! IMO, any superb ’80s defense (’85 Bears, ’89 Forty Niners, etc) would have had fits against Bradshaw-to-Stallworth or Bradshaw-to-Swann.
I am shocked you haven't mentioned Antonio Brown. ;)
7DnBrnc53
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

conace21 wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:I would take the Stallworth/Swann tandem over Rice and Taylor. Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.
I would take Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark over S&S. I would take Rice and JJ Stokes over S&S. Rice certainly benefited from the WCO, but that doesn't explain away the 10 1st team All Pro selections in 11 years, or the 1200 yards at age 40. For comparisons sake, no other player has ever gained a single yard receiving in his 40's.
Rice and Clark? Rice and Stokes(over Swann & Stallworth)? :lol:

And, Rice's longevity is (more than likely) the product of the system that he played in (running short little slants and not having to face a lot of contact due to a lot of CB's playing 10 yards off the ball).
Jeremy Crowhurst
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by Jeremy Crowhurst »

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
conace21 wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:I would take the Stallworth/Swann tandem over Rice and Taylor. Rice was a product of the WCO to some degree, and John Taylor's reputation came from one game (a Dec. 1989 MNF game against the Rams) where he had long TD's on short passes against DB's that were falling down.
I would take Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark over S&S. I would take Rice and JJ Stokes over S&S. Rice certainly benefited from the WCO, but that doesn't explain away the 10 1st team All Pro selections in 11 years, or the 1200 yards at age 40. For comparisons sake, no other player has ever gained a single yard receiving in his 40's.
Rice and Clark? Rice and Stokes(over Swann & Stallworth)? :lol:

And, Rice's longevity is (more than likely) the product of the system that he played in (running short little slants and not having to face a lot of contact due to a lot of CB's playing 10 yards off the ball).
WTF??? There are hundreds of receivers who have played in that same system since Bill Walsh introduced it. Rice is the only one to make a Pro Bowl at age 36, and he and Bruce Matthews are the only non-QB/P/K to make a Pro Bowl at 40. His longevity is due to the same thing as Tom Brady's and Walter Payton's -- an incredible training program in the offseason.

Swann certainly had those two or three seasons where he was one of the best three catch-per-game receivers in history, and if I was building a team that was going to run the ball 600 times, and pass 150 times, and I wasn't expecting my players to actually keep playing football for more than a year or two then yeah, Swann and Stallworth would be my choice. But that's mostly because if I had chosen Rice and Taylor, I'd be spending every Monday scouring local gun shops for a large calibre pistol that I could use to blow my brains out in frustration that my idiot coaches weren't throwing the ball to the guys who could actually play football.

Swann got into the Hall of Fame for one reason and one reason only -- he was teammates with seven legitimate Hall of Famers who carried him and Stallworth to four titles.
RRMarshall
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by RRMarshall »

Perhaps the fact that S & S played in the era where DBs could put a beat down on receivers should be a factor. Swann was famously knocked out of the 1975 AFC Champ game against the Raiders and there were doubts he would even play in SB X, but that kind of worked out for him! Stallworth had those great SBs against Dallas and LA in back-to-back years, and they both certainly played well in big games in an era where many run-oriented teams didn't even throw the ball 20 times a game. Certainly Rice teamed with any capable WR, in this case John Taylor, would seem to have the edge. It's hard to quantify, but there are certainly several factors like this that do bear further thought.
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by L.C. Greenwood »

74_75_78_79_ wrote:I think had Jerry Rice played in the ’70s (more specifically, before ’78), he would have still been...Jerry Rice! Taylor would have, at least, been respectable. However, just imagine Swann playing throughout most of the ’80s, especially with the right QB throwing to him! There were still very great defenses in the ’80s but he not getting mugged as much. And we know how great Stallworth still was without Bradshaw.

Rice - or Hutson - is still the GOAT WR in any era but tandem-wise with all very much due respect to JT, I’ll take S&S! IMO, any superb ’80s defense (’85 Bears, ’89 Forty Niners, etc) would have had fits against Bradshaw-to-Stallworth or Bradshaw-to-Swann.

What often gets lost in these discussions is how HOF receivers like Swann and Warfield had their individual numbers suppressed by both the era they played in, and the nature of the teams they played on, we simply cannot rely 100% on career numbers in this discussion. It made no sense whatsoever for the 70s Steelers and Dolphins to fling the ball around, when they could control teams with a rushing attack. With Swann & Stallworth, that passing attack could kill defenses both inside and outside, short and long. Had Swann been on another team(s) as the primary option, his career numbers would have been greatly increased, right there with the elites. And it was no surprise whatsoever Swann & Stallworth shredded quality defenses in the postseason, often without big rushing days from Franco Harris. Swann was smart to retire early, he had sustained many concussions, and had a strong post-football career lined up.
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Bryan
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by Bryan »

74_75_78_79_ wrote:while JT is pretty historically underrated
How is John Taylor historically underrated? He was always on TV, his teams always made the postseason, he caught a SB-winning TD pass (his only catch of the game). He made 1 pro bowl as a WR in 1989, and that year he finished ELEVENTH in receiving yards...IN THE NFC! The Redskins alone had 3 WRs finish with more yards than Taylor, and none of them made the pro bowl. Flipper Anderson's historic outlier of 44-1146-26.0 was not good enough for the pro bowl that year. Taylor was nowhere near the WR that either Swann or Stallworth were.
Jeremy Crowhurst
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by Jeremy Crowhurst »

Bryan wrote:
74_75_78_79_ wrote:while JT is pretty historically underrated
How is John Taylor historically underrated? He was always on TV, his teams always made the postseason, he caught a SB-winning TD pass (his only catch of the game). He made 1 pro bowl as a WR in 1989, and that year he finished ELEVENTH in receiving yards...IN THE NFC! The Redskins alone had 3 WRs finish with more yards than Taylor, and none of them made the pro bowl. Flipper Anderson's historic outlier of 44-1146-26.0 was not good enough for the pro bowl that year. Taylor was nowhere near the WR that either Swann or Stallworth were.
Taylor was tied for third in receiving touchdowns, which of course is irrelevant given that he made the Pro Bowl as a punt returner....
conace21
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by conace21 »

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:
Bryan wrote:
74_75_78_79_ wrote:while JT is pretty historically underrated
How is John Taylor historically underrated? He was always on TV, his teams always made the postseason, he caught a SB-winning TD pass (his only catch of the game). He made 1 pro bowl as a WR in 1989, and that year he finished ELEVENTH in receiving yards...IN THE NFC! The Redskins alone had 3 WRs finish with more yards than Taylor, and none of them made the pro bowl. Flipper Anderson's historic outlier of 44-1146-26.0 was not good enough for the pro bowl that year. Taylor was nowhere near the WR that either Swann or Stallworth were.
Taylor was tied for third in receiving touchdowns, which of course is irrelevant given that he made the Pro Bowl as a punt returner....
Dave Meggett was the NFC's Pro Bowl returner in 1989
Jeremy Crowhurst
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Re: John Stallorth/Lynn Swann VS Jerry Rice/John Taylor

Post by Jeremy Crowhurst »

conace21 wrote:
Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:Taylor was tied for third in receiving touchdowns, which of course is irrelevant given that he made the Pro Bowl as a punt returner....
Dave Meggett was the NFC's Pro Bowl returner in 1989
Taylor didn't play in the game.
http://www.nflgsis.com/1989/Post/05/53348/Gamebook.pdf
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