American football in Japan

oldecapecod11 · Post by **oldecapecod11** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:51 am

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American football in Japan
Started by rhickok1109, Apr 18 2014 09:48 PM

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#1 rhickok1109
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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:48 PM

On a recent flight to Indianapolis, I happened to sit next to Mike Leonard, who is the head football coach at Franklin College, near Indy. We had a very interesting conversation which made the flight go quickly. As the plane was about to land, he mentioned, off-handedly, that he had spent four years coaching football in Tokyo.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to delve into that any further, but I looked at his bio on the Franklin College website and saw that he had been offensive coordinator for the Tokyo Seagulls from 1993 through 1995 and in 1998.

Then I made a little trip to Wikipedia and found this short article about Japan's X-League. Note that the Recruit Seagulls (the correct name for the team for which Leonard was OC) won Tokyo Super Bowl XII in 1998, his last season with the team.

That article led me to this one, about the International Federation of Football's World Cup. I'd never heard of the organization or the championship before.

Does anyone have any further knowledge about football in Japan and elsewhere outside of the United States?

#2 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

Wikipedia, which is top-heavy on sports and entertainment articles, has a lot of articles about leagues around the world that play our brand of football. Generally, I trust the accuracy of these because the people who maintain them are fanatics. This is an interesting page to begin the exploration
https://en.wikipedia...ootball_leagues
as is this one
https://en.wikipedia...agues_in_Europe
One of our PFRA members, Massimo Foglio, is an expert about the game in Europe (including FIAF, the Italian league), and there was a book last year by Fausto Batella (in Italian and English) about the history of the game there.

#3 Reaser
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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:09 PM
I've known of the IFAF, there's a youth 'World Cup' also, watched the Championship on TV (believe the last one was on the CBS Sports network if I'm remembering correctly?)
Football outside the U.S. There's obviously leagues in Europe. Saw a piece on Robert Kraft sponsoring the entire Israeli Football League. American Somoa another obvious one, have seen multiple features on football there. There's also some football presence in Australia, I don't know much about it other than after my Senior year in High School I was selected as a "Washington All-Star" to be one of the QB's for one of the American teams to play in the then 14th annual Down Under Bowl, which was a two-game trip to Sydney and Surfers Paradise to play against an all-star team from Australia and one from New Zealand...unfortunately or otherwise it conflicted with Junior College practice so I had to be replaced and they had to find an alternate.

#4 John Grasso
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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:37 PM
I believe the Elite Football League of India may still be alive.
http://www.efli.com/season2/

#5 luckyshow
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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:37 AM
There actually is a lot less than one might think, at least in English, about these American football leagues abroad.
Take India. That site is hardly updated. There was, I think, an elite Bowl II, played in December. Try and find a result
http://www.luckyshow.../Elite Bowl.htm
Japan:
http://www.luckyshow...l/Rice Bowl.htm
These are so hard to update. Thankfully, no one cares...
Korea
http://www.luckyshow...Kimchi Bowl.htm
German-Japan Bowl
http://www.luckyshow... Japan Bowl.htm

#6 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 19 April 2014 - 06:03 PM

luckyshow, on 19 Apr 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:
There actually is a lot less than one might think, at least in English, about these American football leagues abroad.
Take India. That site is hardly updated. There was, I think, an elite Bowl II, played in December. Try and find a result
http://www.luckyshow.../Elite Bowl.htm

First, kudos to you for maintaining the sites about globall football. I watched the video that John posted a link two (it's very colorful, a must for uniform fans to see. It's also well edited, in high definition, showing games played in a monsoon and carefully avoiding shots of the stands, which I assume weren't very crowded during the first season. The video closed with the note "Season Two-- Coming in 2014", so perhaps Elite Bowl II hasn't been played yet.
I had no idea that there was a German-Japan Bowl-- is it something that drew from the remaining American servicemen still in the area, or was this between the locals, the best cooperation between the two countries since the Axis?

#7 luckyshow
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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:02 PM
Some of these leagues/countries have teams mostly filled with Americans and Canadians. Sometimes servicemen, sometimes civilian workers, ex-pats. Some use mostly native athletes. There are leagues with some motly all-native teams and mostly all American player teams. There are some with just a few Americans, like they typically do in basketball. There are sometimes different levels. In New Zealand definitely. Off hand I can't tell you which are which, for the most part...
I try and keep up. Time flies and I didn't even look last year. These obscure areas tend to disappear for a while. A similar area are the women's football leagues. They don't seem to care as much about numbers. stats.
I come across impasses. Some of these must be translated and sometimes the translation software doesn't know the sports nomenclature. Sometimes even English won't help.
There may be two Capital Bowls I can't find hide nor hair of. 2013 and 2014. Oh, sometimes if a championship game is in Jan. or Feb. 2014, they call it the 2013 championship game. So I can't find the last two Capital Bowls here:
http://www.luckyshow...New Zealand.htm

#8 luckyshow
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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:26 PM
Just to be complete. Here is Australia. They have started national championships, not on this page. Western Australia is the last frintier, sports reporting-wise, at least
http://www.luckyshow...alian bowls.htm
That, for the most part, completes the Far Eastern countries playing pro football I also have for Turkey, but they are only Asia Minor, here we have Asia Major and Oceania

#9 rhickok1109
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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

luckyshow, on 21 Apr 2014 - 2:26 PM, said:
Just to be complete. Here is Australia. They have started national championships, not on this page. Western Australia is the last frintier, sports reporting-wise, at least
http://www.luckyshow...alian bowls.htm

That, for the most part, completes the Far Eastern countries playing pro football I also have for Turkey, but they are only Asia Minor, here we have Asia Major and Oceania
Thanks for the all the effort and information

#10 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

luckyshow, on 19 Apr 2014 - 9:02 PM, said:
I try and keep up. Time flies and I didn't even look last year. These obscure areas tend to disappear for a while. A similar area are the women's football leagues. They don't seem to care as much about numbers. stats.

I've always found that to be intriguing. The women's leagues are about the only semi-pros that strike me as interesting, because there is no major league for women's football. Years ago, I had done research on the first attempt to make a league, and it involved Hall of Famer Marion Motley as the coach of a Cleveland team. He agreed to work for Cleveland promoter Syd Friedman, on the condition that the sport be real tackle football, rather than entertainment like the Harlem Globetrotters. Unfortunately, you can't even find many scores from the golden age in the 1970s (NWFL, Toledo Troopers, Linda Jefferson, etc.), let alone statistics. Even a magazine called WomenSports tended to ignore the sport, though they named Jefferson as their Sportswoman of the Year in 1975.

#11 luckyshow
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:28 AM
True, it is near impossible finding any data on the old defunct leagues. Even the ones I have that folded in the mid 2000s. I doubt I could replicate this research now. There are currently two leagues in the US. There is a woman's league in Germany that may be better organized. The US ones probably consider themselves major league, I guess.
I may have once mentioned about the club football, college club football. I think Marquette may be almost the only remaining such prgram. I have collected a lot of data on the New York area games. But the ones that lasted furthest, there is less data. I am not sure if they only played the few games I have found, or if others existed. If I went to the school libraries, in old student periodicals they may be found. I have done this with very local schools... Anyway through researching names in a 1970s NY Times article, I found a guy who said he had a garage full of files and paraphernalia. But wouldn't let me see it as he said he'd write a book someday. If he is still around, he never did that. The garage might end up tossed someday. Between the Times article and when I found him was around 25 or 30 years and it's been at least a decade or 15 years since I contacted him and was rebuffed...
A similar area is in basketball, the pre NCAA women's history is all on one very long shelf at the University of Maryland. Which I would have to go there and see...
Someday I will put up the real Fordham football history. On line there is such a thing now, not when I started. But it only begins in 1921. I have going back to the 19th century. At turn of century, they even were playing schools like Syracuse at major league baseball parks. Even I am stuck at this point and must get to their research library. I am stuck at 1894, at 1918... Oddly Fordham and NYU football was the original reason I started my pages....So ironic it still is held back...
I have a few pages on the women's football. Here is one (they aren't all really pro, but most are/were close.
http://www.luckyshow...l/women'sCh.htm
Here is the German Ladies League:
http://www.luckyshow...Ladies Bowl.htm
Another that most people probably never heard of. This is similar to a World Cup:
http://www.luckyshow...World Women.htm

#12 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:47 PM
Looking at that women's World Cup, the American team seems to like running up the score. 66-0, 65-0, 107-7 .... I guess that's why there's no such word as "sportswomanship" Again, Paul, great sites. I had seen some of these before (like the NWFL championship game scores), but didn't realize that you were the archivist.

#13 John Grasso
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:47 PM

Mark L. Ford, on 22 Apr 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:
I've always found that to be intriguing. The women's leagues are about the only semi-pros that strike me as interesting, because there is no major league for women's football.
Even a magazine called WomenSports tended to ignore the sport, though they named Jefferson as their Sportswoman of the Year in 1975.

Linda Jefferson appeared on the ABC Superstars show in 1976 and 1979 and was fourth in 1976 and seventh in 1979.
http://www.thesupers...ersonlinda.html

#14 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:51 PM
I remember the 1976 series, and it made her a celebrity for awhile-- most people, I think, had never heard of a woman playing tackle football. An interesting bit of trivia is that linebacker Marvcus Patton (who was a starter for Buffalo, Washington and Kansas City over 10 of his 13 seasons) may be the only NFL player whose mother was a football player. His mom, Barbara, was with the Los Angeles Dandelions of the NWFL in the mid-1970s, and played linebacker as well. I wonder what happened to Linda Jefferson, or whether she's still in Toledo?

15 luckyshow
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:32 AM
Interesting sort of recent news on the Toledo team, mentions Linda Jefferson, as well:
http://www.toledobla...ill-family.html
A movie?
http://www.toledobla...s-Troopers.html
That 100 point score is pretty rare for modern times.for 11 a side football
http://www.luckyshow...oring Games.htm
While the women send their "best," the men send amateurs or at least very low level semi-pros:
http://www.luckyshow...F World Cup.htm

#16 oldecapecod 11
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:36 AM
Mark L. Ford
"...I wonder what happened to Linda Jefferson, or whether she's still in Toledo?"

Be careful what you wonder. The answer may soon be at your local silver screen.
http://www.toledobla...s-Troopers.html

Now, among the 893,000,000,000 things I do not know is the history behind the streets of America (US version, of course) outside of New York City.
Here in Florida, stretching from Port Charlotte to North Port, is a thoroughfare named Toledo Blade Boulevard. There was never a reason to give it a thought. However, you will note the name of the Toledo newspaper is the "Blade."
Hmmm... that is just too much to let sit unanswered.

It is kinda like: What ever happened to Rosie Ruiz? (She may still be on probation here in Florida.)

"... In 1982, Ruiz was arrested for embezzling $60,000 from a real estate company where she worked. She spent one week in jail and was sentenced to five years' probation.[9][10] She then moved back to southern Florida, only to be arrested in 1983 for her involvement in a cocaine deal. She was sentenced to three years' probation.[11][10] At last report, she was working in West Palm Beach[10] as a client representative for a medical laboratory company.[12] As of the year 2000, she still maintained that she ran the entire 1980 Boston Marathon.[2]..."

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Rosie_Ruiz

Meanwhile, driving through North Carolina the other day, I think I heard a new tune by a C&W political parodist:
"Hang Up Your Headline, Tom Dewey"
It reminded me of a time I was in the wilds of Pennsylvania and was looking for something to do (bored at my sister's.)
I called a couple of the local clubs to ask about dancing and/or entertainment.
When a girl told me they had music, I asked, "What kind?"
Her reply, "We got both kinds, country and western."
Hee Haw !!!

#17 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 12:33 PM
Thanks, Paul and Phil, on the news regarding the film-- I liked "A League of Their Own" and it's good to see that the Toledo Troopers' story will be dramatized-- and that Linda Jefferson is doing just fine. Back in the mid-70s, there was made-for-TV film on ABC callled The Oklahoma City Dolls, about the team of the same name, who played Toledo twice in the title game. It wasn't very interesting, more about the reaction that a housewife faced from everyone for putting on a helmet. At the time, I thought they selected the Dolls to profile, because the team name was more feminine. As for Rosie Ruiz, I think that Janet Cooke could help her with the autobiography... and Bernie Madoff can negotiate the rights...

#18 oldecapecod 11
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:48 PM
Mark L. Ford
"... As for Rosie Ruiz, I think that Janet Cooke could help her with the autobiography... and Bernie Madoff can negotiate the rights..."

Hmmm... certainly supporters of quantity but are they athletic supporters?

Janet has the connection and might do better in Florida tracking the origin of Toldeo Blade Boulevard.
Bernie is in North Carolina where he can listen (daily) for that C&W singer to wail about the headline while he awaits the eventual pardon near the end of the present administration.

There might be others who can better serve to present the tale of the Wild Cuban Rose.
Victor Kiam could certainly finance an effort by Lisa Olson that would see the Ruiz legacy rise like a Patriot missile and attain the height of, say, a Zeke Mowatt.

#19 luckyshow
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:00 PM
Not sure if I am repeating links above. A longer piece just on Linda Jefferson
http://www.toledofre...inda-jefferson/
And the screenplay:
http://www.toledotro...m/About-Us.html

Did you know they renamed the Lingerie Football League to the Legends Football League, which perhaps is even more ridiculous. There is no kicking in this LFL. Maybe punting, but no placekicks. So... If you wonder where the NFL might be if they continue in their pursuit of eliminating the kicking game, perhaps they will play in Speedos and little else. Would perhaps cut back on injuries (or increase them)

#20 luckyshow
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:25 PM
Is everything explained on the internet? Well, sometimes:
http://www.lindseywi...r.htm~mainFrame

I have a story involving driving cross country and going down a one way street in Tecumseh. But not now...

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American football in Japan
Started by rhickok1109, Apr 18 2014 09:48 PM

age 2 of 4

#21 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:46 PM

luckyshow, on 23 Apr 2014 - 5:00 PM, said:
Did you know they renamed the Lingerie Football League to the Legends Football League, which perhaps is even more ridiculous. There is no kicking in this LFL. Maybe punting, but no placekicks. So... If you wonder where the NFL might be if they continue in their pursuit of eliminating the kicking game, perhaps they will play in Speedos and little else. Would perhaps cut back on injuries (or increase them)

Few things disgust me more than the concept of the Lingerie Football League-- the highest wages ever paid for women to play football, but the catch is that they have to wear bikinis and helmets as they play the arena game. Talent nice, but not really necessary. I guess it appeals to perverts with a fetish for watching skin contact between scantily clad women. Who goes to an LFL game to watch football? They might as well throw a cucumber around.

#22 PeterS
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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:15 PM
To get back to the original topic about American Football in other countries:
http://ifaf.org/ is the Web Site of the International Federation of American Football.
Japan won the first "World Cup of American Football" in 1999, and the second in 2003 (USA did not compete).
USA won in 2007 and 2011

I vaguely remember seeomg the Ivy League All-Stars playing the Japan National team some time in the 1980s on cable. For some reason it stuck in my head that the announcer said that Japan had "company" teams and University teams, and that their Championship game each year was the Company Champions vs. the University Champions.

Hope this helps.

#23 luckyshow
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Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:16 AM
I can swear I put this link up within this thread. This has all the Japanese championship games (I actually have a list of all the Rice Bowls, the other ones involving US military bases teams, etc. But not as much the college championships. This has the industrial...
http://www.luckyshow...l/Rice Bowl.htm

And I did have the women's list listed, I'd thought I had this, too:
http://www.luckyshow...F World Cup.htm

Did you think I make mistakes?

#24 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:28 PM
Very informative stuff from everyone here. As I say, luckyshow's compilations of scores are great work. They're the product of both researching the pre-internet records, and preserving information that was on the internet at one time, but which would be lost to history if there weren't someone there with a sense of history. Well done. The official http://ifaf.org/ link from PeterS is interesting reading as well; not as much historical data as Lucky's compilations of scores (which illustrates what Peter was recalling about the company champs vs. college champs game, which is the "Rice Bowl" that has been going on since 1983-- http://www.luckyshow...l/Rice Bowl.htm). I had never heard of the the Poland league (PLFA) until today, but I see that's in its 9th season. Interesting stuff from both of you-- I'd compare Lucky's records to an almanac, and the link from Peter to a newspaper.

#25 rhickok1109
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Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:54 PM

Mark L. Ford, on 25 Apr 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:
Very informative stuff from everyone here...Interesting stuff from both of you-- I'd compare Lucky's records to an almanac, and the link from Peter to a newspaper.

It's great that some people are willing to put so much time and effort into this kind of research.

#26 luckyshow
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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:45 PM

Through Peter's pages I now see an entirely different area, South America, I have neglected before. I have many I haven't listed here for Europe, including Poland. The only central index I have for these is on my index page, Amazing Sports Lists. Probably this is a neglected area for me, good indexing. I guess people have to search for some of what I have.
http://www.luckyshow...sportslists.htm

I also add new finds almost every day and probably should have a page that mentions these, changing daily.....

#27 luckyshow
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:34 AM

OK, some of these are incredibly hard to find. As hard as New Zealand. There is a Pacific-Atlantic Bowl. Later this year the third will be played. Or was in February. I can't find 2 of the 3 nor the correct date for that one I have a score for!

Here is what I scrounged up for the Silver Bowl, a game between the national teams (sometimes an all-star team, sometimes the national league's champ.) of Argentina and Uruguay:
http://www.luckyshow...Silver Bowl.htm

A related list is the early Silver Bowl game between a Mexico national team and a lower or mid level American service team or college or JC....Now the Aztec Bowl:
http://www.luckyshow.../Aztec Bowl.htm
Montevideo Bowl:
http://www.luckyshow...evideo Bowl.htm

#28 oldecapecod 11
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:59 PM

Paul, as soon as I find the appropriate badge of rank, you will be upgraded to Detective nth-grade.
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#29 luckyshow
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:00 AM

Not sure what that means, but thanks!

Here is another short one, the Pacific-Atlantic Bowl. No idea about the tie, it was hard enough finding the score....
http://www.luckyshow...lantic Bowl.htm

#30 luckyshow
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Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:52 AM

A few maybe interesting new compilations...

Here they all just seem to be getting along through football. Serbia Croatia Slovenia:
http://www.luckyshow...l/CEFL Bowl.htm
The Ro-Bowl:
http://www.luckyshow...all/Ro-Bowl.htm
The Desert Bowl reminds me of John Goldfarb, Please Come Home, a great movie. Not sure of the football, it probably suffers without Shirley Mcclaine's navel.
http://www.luckyshow...Desert Bowl.htm

#31 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:45 PM
That would make a great article in a future Coffin Corner-- the global development of football, if only to make note of the five continents that it's played on and give the links for people who want to know more (one thing we don't do is to pirate someone's work). What I've seen works out to the champions of nearly 20 other nations besides the U.S. and Canada. Paul, you're probably already in SABR, but I hope you'll join us at PFRA one of these days, because your research and websites truly are, as your umbrella site says, amazing.

#32 luckyshow
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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:09 PM

At the moment I am unemployed and scrounging by. I worry about the time when most local online newspapers charge to see a page. That would nearly end my daily looking for current achievements, the long kicks, the female kicking, the basketball scoring, etc.

Look at this odd ephemera I came across. I guess I've never seen a list of movies with football themes. 10 Things I Hate About You has great scenes of the football field and school at Tacoma, for instance. Marx Bros. Horsefeathers, John Goldfarb..., are just the silly entries. And this:
http://www.threestoo...raphy/episode/4

Now I am finding Central America. Costa Rica has a Tico Bowl and a Tropic Bowl.

#33 luckyshow
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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:03 AM

Here's a personal rant. When a team (or whoever) has their home page on facebook instead of a normal web page
, there is no index, there is no way to find anything without scrolling down forever until you run into something. Hits on google don't appear. It is useless. To find history, stats, anything, is impossible. It is useless except for simple silliness....

#34 Reaser
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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:06 AM

luckyshow, on 01 May 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:
Here's a personal rant...It is useless except for simple silliness....

This one bugs me as well. Can't even find a simple team schedule unless they put it in their pictures, which in my experience is rare. Have to scroll and scroll and hope you finally come to something of substance.

#35 rhickok1109
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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:26 AM
luckyshow, on 01 May 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:
Here's a personal rant. When a team (or whoever) has their home page on facebook instead of a normal web page
, there is no index, there is no way to find anything without scrolling down forever until you run into something. Hits on google don't appear. It is useless. To find history, stats, anything, is impossible. It is useless except for simple silliness....

Doesn't every team have a de facto home page on the NFL site?

#36 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:59 AM
He's referring to the constantly changing non-NFL teams that he tracks on radar, many of which use Facebook rather than paying for a website.

#37 luckyshow
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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:53 PM
Yes, as he says. I hadn't realized they were just cheap. I think my web pages costs very little per year.

The facebook pages are useless. Unless there is a way to search which I don't know of...Searching by scrolling in a year is ridiculous. It is a very lousy way to have any sort of page. It isn't even like a blog, since, as I said, if you discover something through Google on one of these facebook pages, it doesn't show up even in the "cache" Only the latest shows up. It just stinks for research, for my purposes.

.Oh, and Google News Archive is beyond horrid now. I used to use it constantly. I'd discover a paper and get really thorough with it, day to day, year to year. Now I found what I used to do is impossible. Without the detailed Advanced search it is improbable to find anything. I wonder why they removed the link. Maybe if we saved where the link was it may still be there?

There seems to be a consistent dumbing down at almost every newspaper archives, as well. I still point to newspaper archives where everything is using huge fonts except for "advanced search" which is the smallest font they use.. After so many times they would never reply to technical questions except when they were easy answers for them, when I needed to renew, they didn't even tell me. Maybe they were embarrassed by the price increase. I wish my library would just pay for it....

#38 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:11 PM
My small town library added NewsBank last year, which proved to be the right thing at the right time for researching from 1985 onward. It's limited to United States newspapers, and it's text only, so there aren't as many standings or box scores, and I'm not sure how useful it would be. I'm still on newspaperarchive.com, although not for much longer, since I decided to pay by the month instead of the cheaper 6-month or one year rate. For any questions, just use the instant message button.

#39 luckyshow
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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:56 AM
My library has News Bank and Proquest, so many papers from 1985. But the lack of including the agate print stuff (like box scores and standings, et al,) is a bad thing for my research. Also, a friend sent me something about how the Brooklyn main library now has the Brooklyn Eagle for the entire run. Only problem is (and I haven't looked yet, so I may be wrong) they have the most amazing interface for what they've had for years up to 1902 (it was the inane 100 year copyright law extension), because I think they have an agreement with newspapers.com so I presume it won't be the great interface they've had. Perhaps they might even replace the entire run with the type of interface where one must look at the entire page. The library's Eagle interface blew away even how proquest displays results....

Here is the latest I have been working on, including the ones played tomorrow and the one played beginning of last monthw hich I still haven't found. Well, actually this would be on the 4 pages now put up. At the bottom of the following page are links to the other three Costa Rica pages I have so far, some even longer than this one! (The Tico Bowl is nice)
http://www.luckyshow...all/CA Bowl.htm

#40 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 02 May 2014 - 11:16 AM
The Central America Bowl is intriguing-- 45 years ago, two of the countries in that area (El Salvador and Honduras, I think) went to war over a soccer game. And, of course, there were two Hall of Famers who were born in Central America and ended up enshrined in a town in Midwest America-- I'll leave it to our trivia buffs to name them....

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oldecapecod 11

American football in Japan
Started by rhickok1109, Apr 18 2014 09:48 PM

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#41 rhickok1109
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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:17 PM
Mark L. Ford, on 02 May 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:
The Central America Bowl is intriguing-- 45 years ago, two of the countries in that area (El Salvador and Honduras, I think) went to war over a soccer game. And, of course, there were two Hall of Famers who were born in Central America and ended up enshrined in a town in Midwest America-- I'll leave it to our trivia buffs to name them....

Tom Fears and Steve Van Buren.

#42 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:41 PM
Van Buren of Honduras is one of them. In this case, however, Central America would be the "banana republics" (Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Panama and Belize), while Mexico (where Fears was born, something I didn't know) is what I usually think of as being part of North America.

I'd add that Van Buren and the other one grew up in the United States even though the stork brought them to a tropical birthplace.

#43 Teo
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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:41 PM
Mark L. Ford, on 02 May 2014 - 1:41 PM, said:
Van Buren of Honduras is one of them. In this case, however, Central America would be the "banana republics" (Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Panama and Belize), while Mexico (where Fears was born, something I didn't know) is what I usually think of as being part of North America.

I'd add that Van Buren and the other one grew up in the United States even though the stork brought them to a tropical birthplace.

#44 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:39 PM
And Ted Hendricks, was, indeed, the other Hall of Famer from Central America. Teo correctly picked up the stork reference.

#45 John Grasso
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Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:39 AM
According to Pro Football Reference.com there were a few other NFL players born in Central America:
Belize (actually British Honduras at the time) - Bill Gutteron - 2 games for Los Angeles Buccaneers in 1926
El Salvador - Jose Cortez -7 teams 1999-2005
Guatemala - John Hendy - San Diego 1985 - in addition to Hendricks
Honduras - Ebert Van Buren Philadelphia 1951-53, Steve's brother - in addition to Steve
Panama - Alvin Powell - 1987-89 - Seattle, Miami
and none in Nicaragua
There were also 13 players born in Mexico and
two others born in the Panama Canal Zone.

#46 luckyshow
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Posted 03 May 2014 - 11:35 AM
Other than that they could have also ran for President, the Canal Zone, running through the center of Panama, is in Central America, so you should name those two, as well...

#47 Teo
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Posted 03 May 2014 - 12:07 PM
Leo Barker, a linebacker who played with the Bengals in the 80s was from Panama IIRC.

What about the Caribbean? You could include Luis Castillo (Dominican Republic), Luis Sharpe (Cuba), Sean Jones (Jamaica), Gosder Cherilus (Haiti), amongst others.

#48 Mark L. Ford
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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:55 PM
luckyshow, on 03 May 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:
Other than that they could have also ran for President, the Canal Zone, running through the center of Panama, is in Central America, so you should name those two, as well...

And, of course, John McCain was a Zonian who ran for President in 2004, the first time a major party candidate came from outside the continental United States-- as it happened, both McCain and Obama were born outside of the "lower 48"

The unpopular-with-some website below has the two players referred to
http://www.pro-footb...nal Zone&state=

#49 JWL
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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:15 PM
Teo, on 03 May 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:
Leo Barker, a linebacker who played with the Bengals in the 80s was from Panama IIRC.

What about the Caribbean? You could include Luis Castillo (Dominican Republic), Luis Sharpe (Cuba), Sean Jones (Jamaica), Gosder Cherilus (Haiti), amongst others.
Anthony Herrera came from Trinidad and Tobago.

#50 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 26 May 2014 - 03:48 AM
I notice this topic with a one month delay

As Mark stated, i'm an "expert" about football in Europe, mainly because i was one of the very first players in Italy in 1980, and since then i lived every minute of football history and development in my country and in Europe as well. So if anyone has any question about football in Europe... here I am.

Some quick answer to a few questions i saw posted:
- The German - Japan Bowl is a game between the National Teams of both countries. No americans involved.
- The IFAF World Cup will play ist fifth edition in Stockholm in 2015. I witnessed the very first edition in Palermo 1999 (i was the official statistician of ther tournament), and since then the World Cup has grown in interest and participation.
- In Europe only a few teams are "filled with americans", and nowadays very few of those american are military (just one in Italy, as of my knowledge, for instance). Now import players come from Colleges, undrafted NFL players, NFL cuts and so on.

#51 luckyshow
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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:39 AM
Massimo: Why did the Golden League have two Super Bowls in 2012? Did they change when the season was held that year? See this possibly confusing chart: (As you can see I also have problems with the records for the NIFL, especially 1986 where I couldn't find the game, at all)
http://www.luckyshow... Super Bowl.htm

#52 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:50 AM
In 2012 FIF decided to move the football season from spring to fall, so they played two seasons in 2012 (and two Super Bowls).
The move was decided because FIF did not want his league to be in direct competition with the three FIDAF leagues anymore (IFL, LeNAF and CIF9), which are played from february to july.
Here is the Super Bowl winners list: http://www.footballs.../100-super-bowl

#53 luckyshow
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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:29 PM
What is the "9 players" footnote about for the past three Super Bowls??

#54 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:31 PM
FIF plays 9-men football since 2012.
The football scene in Italy is one of the oddest ever in Europe and, possibly, the world.

#55 luckyshow
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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:58 PM
I also notice that on the list you sent for Italian Super Bowls, that they don't list the IFL Super Bowls, and have retroactively renumbered the first four FIF Super Bowls from I through IV to XXX to XXXIII. Why, especially if the last few have been 9 a side, while I presume the IFL is still 11 man game?

#56 luckyshow
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Posted 27 May 2014 - 04:03 PM
Are you good at all European American football?
Does Hungary still play?
http://www.luckyshow...garian Bowl.htm
...or Brittany?
http://www.luckyshow.../Ouest Bowl.htm

#57 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:07 AM
The Ouest Bowl is no longer played.
In Hungary the MEFL folded in 2010 after the Hungarian Bowl VI. Another League was formed, but the 2011 chapionship game has always been considered Unofficial.
It was won by budapest Wolves 28-0 vs Nyíregyháza Tigers.
In 2012 the HFL (Hungarian Footbal League) was formed, and the Hungarian Bowl came back to be the official game giving the "Hungarian Champions" title.
Hungarian Bowl VII Wolves Budapest - Budapest Hurricanes = 65-21
Hungarian Bowl VIII Budapest Hurricanes - Wolves Docler = 28-24

#58 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:39 AM
The answer to your questions about italian Bowls, requires a little more time, and a short history has to be narrated.
Football in Italy began in 1980 with the 4-team LIF (Lega Italiana Football). There was no Super Bowl, and the second championship in 1981 was halted after three weeks of the 6-week season, because LIF folded.
In the meantime, in 1981 another league was formed: the 5-team AIFA (Associazione Italiana Football Americano). At the end of their first season, although the title was awarded to the Rhinos Milano, winners of the regular season, they decided to play a final between the first and second ranked teams. They called it "Super Ball", and it was the first ever Italian Super Bowl.
As the number of teams grew over the seasons, AIFA changed its name to FIAF (Federazone Italiana American Football) in 1988, when they were accepted by the Italian Olympic Committee.
At the end of the '90s FIAF was almost broke in debts, and in 2001 was expelled from IOC. In a couple of years FIAF folded, and was replaced by the new football organization: NFLI (National Football League Italy) in 2003. In the same year 6 teams not willing to enter the NFLI formed a rival league: FIDAF (Federazione Italiana Di American Football). FIDAF played just a couple of season, then the 6 teams entered the NFLI as well.
In 2007 Italian football broke in two parts: to one side the teams still wanting to play for NFLI, on the other side the "Big" Teams wanting to form their own league, the IFL (Italian Football League). To make a long story short (it would need a book to narrate the 2007/2008 events...) both parties were willing to be reentered in the IOC, so they had to tranform their association form to "Federation". The NFLI changed name in FIF (Federazione Italiana Football), while the IFL and a few other teams brought back the FIDAF, the umbrella organization for two leagues: IFL and LeNAF (Lega Nazionale American Football).
FIF retained the original Super Bowl numeration, while FIDAF started a new one with "Italian Super Bowl I".
FIDAF won the "IOC battle", and in a few years almost all the teams changed organization from FIF to FIDAF.
Starting 2013 season FIDAF decided to return to the old numeration, renumbering also their past finals.
FIDAF has now four senior leagues: IFL (11-men, with import players), LeNAF (11-men no import players), CIF9 (9-men no import players) and CIFAF (9-Women football).
FIF only has a 5-team Golden League, 9-men football.
The website i linked (and i manage) is FIF related, so it only contains AIFA/FIAF/NFLI/FIF data.

#59 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:29 AM
What was the 2011 Hungarian league called?
Boy, the Italian is pretty convoluted!
I had found this page...
http://www.elitefoot...ays/hongrie.htm
The numbering sequence is different, they start #1 (I) in 2006. The 2007 game is a different one than I have. And it has a 2011 game that isn't even the one you mention. What is this list as compared with the rest?

#60 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:10 AM
In 2011 the league was the HFL, but the league was not yet recognized by the federation (so the 2011 Hungarian Bowl is still considered "unofficial"). The 2011 game reported on the Elitefoot website was the Division I final. The Division I was recognized by the Federation, so it is often referred to as the Hungarian Bowl, but it is not.
On this page you'll find a pretty accurate report of the different "Bowls" in Hungary:
http://hu.wikipedia....sapatok_LigÃ¡ja

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#61 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:13 AM
Compare these:
http://hu.wikipedia....merikai_futball
http://fr.wikipedia....ball_amÃ©ricain
That is where I got the 2007 game
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's skip 2011, but which 2007 game is the real one?
And here in Hungarian, it says my 2007 is the right one:
http://hu.wikipedia....ecen_Gladiators
But did they actually lose a subsequent game to the Sharks team?
It is weird that what seem like it should be easy is full of oddities....Or I should call them paradoxes...

#62 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:30 AM
According to the Wikipedia page of the Soldiers (http://hu.wikipedia....zolnok_Soldiers) it appears unlikely that they played the Hungarian Bowl in 2007, since they ended their season 0-4.
The game vs Debrecen, lost 6-33, seems to be the last regular season game.

#63 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:36 AM
Finally, what is CEI Bowl?
I removed the Soldiers 2007 game. Now perhaps only "problem" is 2011 where the pages that show the numbering sequence for the bowl game starting in 2006, have game VI in 2011, this one: Nyiregyhazar TIGERS 42-07 Békéscsaba RAPTORS
Is there an explanation for 2011, even if it was unofficial maybe? I am guessing it was no formal league...
And the CEI Bowl ...
Here is the page now with embellishment and confusing footnotes
http://www.luckyshow...garian Bowl.htm

#64 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:44 AM
The CEI Bowl is the final of the Central Europe Interleague, an international tournament, held under the umbrella of EFAF and IFAF Europe, for teams from Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia.
If i'm not mistaken this season they'll play the third edition of such a Bowl.

#65 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:53 AM
Tracking the scores for Central European teams is tougher than tracking the football scene in Italy
They often participate in two or three different leagues at the same time, and it's not always easy to determine which game counts for which league.
A Budapest team, for example, one season played the Hungarian League with hungarian teams, the Austrian league with hungarian and austrian teams and the Central European Football League, with hungarian, Serbian, Slovenian and Romanian teams, and sometimes a game between two hungarian teams in the austrian league also counted for the Hungarian League, but if the same happened in the CEFL, the score did not count for hungarian standings.
It's a continuos headache!!!

#66 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:00 AM
In Hungary in 2011 happened the same thing that happened in Italy in 2007: the best teams opted out from the fedeartion and formed the HFL, playing their final. The federation did not recognized the HFL at that time, so the final doesn't keep the name of Hungarian Bowl.
The remaining teams played the Division I, and the final was not called Hungarian Bowl either.
The following year the federation recognized the HFL and all came back to normal.

#67 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:08 AM
Sorry for so many repetitions, either I didn't realize they were going on a 4th page, or my computer made it seem like they weren't loading...
I will attempt the CEO Bowl maybe tomorrow, as it is time to wake up and i haven't gone to sleep yet! This past week I finally did what I have for Fordham from the 1880s to 2013. Intense, but these challenge that claim!
Here is the page now with embellishment and confusing footnotes
http://www.luckyshow...garian Bowl.htm

#68 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:53 PM
So far I have found just one game, the 2012, called the CEI Bowl, the rest are called the CEI Cup:
7/7/2012 Nyiregyhaza Tigers (Hung) 25-20 Bratislava Monarchs (SAAF) (Slovakia)
2013 Bratoslava Monarchs 21-17 Topolcany Kings (both Slovakia)
2011 Györ Sharks 27-21 Pancevo Panthers (both Hungary)
2010 Klek Knights 36-14 Istanbul Cavaliers (Turkey)
2009 Reggio d'Emilie Hogs (Italy 35-7 Györ SHarks (Hungary)

#69 Massimo Foglio
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:14 PM
2009 and 2010 games are the old EFAF Challenge Cup (http://www.efaf.info...lt=challengecup)
The CEI was created in 2011. I don't know when they started to call their final "CEI Bowl".
For sure the 2011 edition was named "Interleague Finals" (http://www.efaf.info...meldung&ID=1412)

#70 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:10 PM
Here I thought Korea or New Zealand was hard......OK I could work with his, but what about that 2009 game, what was it? ANd I don't think I have a EFAF Cup or EFL cup....

#71 luckyshow
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Posted 29 May 2014 - 10:12 PM
The idea at first was just the games called "Bowl" I have toyed with trying to find or do a list for the Pretzel Bowl, even though I presume Albright has played in every one, just because of the name.
I got in to deep as I usually do...
Europeans are weird. Which for the most part can usually be a good thing, but here it just tends to bewilder me.
HArd to write or think when watching hockey...
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