Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby Jay Z » Tue May 17, 2022 4:19 pm

Teo wrote:
BD Sullivan wrote:When Bill Walsh (who also needed a QB in the 79 draft) went to Clemson to work Fuller out, they needed a receiver--so Fuller's teammate Dwight Clark was picked or volunteered. Walsh obviously wasn't all that impressed with Fuller, since he ended up settling for some QB from Notre Dame in the third round...


The 49ers didn't had a 1st or 2nd round (courtesy of O.J. Simpson) but they had two 3rd, Montana ws the second pick, the first was RB James Owens, who played mostly with Tampa Bay in the early 80s.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I think that the 49ers would have drafted Fuller or even Jack Thompson at QB if they had the top overall pick they traded to the Bills for O.J.


According to Levy's book, yes, the 49ers would have taken Fuller if the Chiefs hadn't traded up to get him. 49ers would have used the second round pick they used for James Owens. Maybe the Oilers pick Mike Stensrud earlier then.

Pick the 49ers used for Montana was one they got in a swap with Seattle when they traded for Bob Jury. That pick was Dallas' originally, went to Seattle as part of the Bill Gregory trade. So then likely Montana goes to the Chiefs with either their 2nd round or 4th round pick (3rd round pick traded away for Stan Johnson, a NT that never panned out) because the next QB chosen was Steve Dils by the Vikings later in the 4th round.
Jay Z
 
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: Madison WI

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Tue May 17, 2022 4:59 pm

Jay Z wrote:
Teo wrote:
BD Sullivan wrote:When Bill Walsh (who also needed a QB in the 79 draft) went to Clemson to work Fuller out, they needed a receiver--so Fuller's teammate Dwight Clark was picked or volunteered. Walsh obviously wasn't all that impressed with Fuller, since he ended up settling for some QB from Notre Dame in the third round...


The 49ers didn't had a 1st or 2nd round (courtesy of O.J. Simpson) but they had two 3rd, Montana ws the second pick, the first was RB James Owens, who played mostly with Tampa Bay in the early 80s.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I think that the 49ers would have drafted Fuller or even Jack Thompson at QB if they had the top overall pick they traded to the Bills for O.J.


According to Levy's book, yes, the 49ers would have taken Fuller if the Chiefs hadn't traded up to get him. 49ers would have used the second round pick they used for James Owens. Maybe the Oilers pick Mike Stensrud earlier then.

Pick the 49ers used for Montana was one they got in a swap with Seattle when they traded for Bob Jury. That pick was Dallas' originally, went to Seattle as part of the Bill Gregory trade. So then likely Montana goes to the Chiefs with either their 2nd round or 4th round pick (3rd round pick traded away for Stan Johnson, a NT that never panned out) because the next QB chosen was Steve Dils by the Vikings later in the 4th round.


I think they would have taken Montana in Round 2 if they weren't interested in Fuller. Team President Jack Steadman was pushing Levy to get a franchise QB at that point.
7DnBrnc53
 
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby JeffreyMiller » Tue May 17, 2022 6:32 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote:74_75, you come up with some good topics, and this is another one. Not too much focus on the late-70's and 80's Chiefs before Marty.

With the KC QB situation, you have to go back to 1978 and 79. In the 1978 draft, the Chiefs used their first three draft picks on defensive players (Art Still, Sylvester Hicks, and Gary Spani). Jack Steadman was upset that they didn't draft a franchise QB, but there really wasn't one available except for Guy Benjamin in Round 2 (I don't know much about him, or how good he could have been. I do know this: Tony Hill, former Cowboy WR who played at Stanford, said that Benjamin was the second best QB he ever played with only behind Staubach).

Then, the next year, their QB coach (Kay Dalton) was scouting some of the rookies. He came back saying that he liked one certain guy (you can probably guess who I am talking about) over a lot of the others. However, Steadman was adamant on getting that franchise QB, and they had Steve Fuller rated as the best QB left at that point. He didn't want them passing on Fuller, so they traded back into the first round with the Oilers to get him.

That turned out to be a mistake, as he was beaten out by Kenney the next year (the Kyle Orton of 1980).

In 1981, they did start 8-5, but they had that loss to Miami at home that may have been the pivotal loss of Levy's career (don't know for sure. Just conjecture). Not only was Kenney missing, but Joe Delaney didn't play in most of that game due to injury. Had they had both of those guys, they have a good chance of winning that game at home against an overachieving Miami team.

Then, after a disappointing 1982 (when that jerk Steadman unfairly forced Levy out), they pass on Marino for Blackledge. I was on a KC fan's site once, and he said that they had Marino at Arrowhead for a pre-draft workout. Apparently, he was swearing at people, so they drafted the more polite Blackledge (also, the drug rumors had a lot to do with why he dropped. That scared away a lot of teams, right or wrong).

Levy was starting to turn that team around. I wonder what would have happened if he was given one more year by Lamar Hunt (that's what he should have one on that one, not deferring to that jerk), and if they take Marino or Kelly (I don't know why they had Blackledge over Kelly. They aren't much smarter than Pedo Joe, who wanted to move Kelly to LB in college).

One more thing: By 1985, they should have made a decision on Blackledge. Either trade him, and fully commit to Kenney, or trade Bill and build the offense around Todd. Don't know why they didn't do that (looking back, I would have traded Todd and drafted Randall Cunningham, with Kenney as the short-term stopgap).

Pedo Joe? Seriously?
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football."
User avatar
JeffreyMiller
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:28 am
Location: Birthplace of Pop Warner

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Wed May 18, 2022 10:19 am

Pedo Joe? Seriously?


Of course. He turned his back on the victims. And, in the late-70's, he had a sexual predator on his team that was terrorizing females on campus:

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story ... ng-justice

Here is what one of Hodne's victims said when Paterno called her back then:

Karen's boyfriend and State College Police investigators knew Karen was one of the named victims in an ongoing string of sexual assaults. But then she learned she might hear from Joe Paterno. "I seem to recall that somebody told me that he was concerned about it and that he might reach out to me," she says.

Paterno, in those days, was famous for doing the right thing. When he called Karen after Todd Hodne had been arrested for the attack on Betsy Sailor, Karen hoped he was doing the right thing for her, especially after he asked, "Are you OK?"

But the call went differently than she expected. To Karen, Paterno's call "was kind of an admission that his football player did it, and he was expecting me to move forward." Karen wanted to move forward but didn't want to forget. She was, in fact, hoping to prosecute. "He was trying to ascertain if I was going to go to [the Betsy Sailor hearing] and if the police had discovered anything concrete. My recollection is that he came out and asked me if I was going to testify—if I was planning to go to court." When Paterno called, she had hoped that he was calling out of concern for her. Instead, Karen felt he was calling out of concern for his program. "He was kind of scaring me I think a little bit," she says.
7DnBrnc53
 
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby JeffreyMiller » Wed May 18, 2022 12:29 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
Pedo Joe? Seriously?


Of course. He turned his back on the victims. And, in the late-70's, he had a sexual predator on his team that was terrorizing females on campus:

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story ... ng-justice

Here is what one of Hodne's victims said when Paterno called her back then:

Karen's boyfriend and State College Police investigators knew Karen was one of the named victims in an ongoing string of sexual assaults. But then she learned she might hear from Joe Paterno. "I seem to recall that somebody told me that he was concerned about it and that he might reach out to me," she says.

Paterno, in those days, was famous for doing the right thing. When he called Karen after Todd Hodne had been arrested for the attack on Betsy Sailor, Karen hoped he was doing the right thing for her, especially after he asked, "Are you OK?"

But the call went differently than she expected. To Karen, Paterno's call "was kind of an admission that his football player did it, and he was expecting me to move forward." Karen wanted to move forward but didn't want to forget. She was, in fact, hoping to prosecute. "He was trying to ascertain if I was going to go to [the Betsy Sailor hearing] and if the police had discovered anything concrete. My recollection is that he came out and asked me if I was going to testify—if I was planning to go to court." When Paterno called, she had hoped that he was calling out of concern for her. Instead, Karen felt he was calling out of concern for his program. "He was kind of scaring me I think a little bit," she says.

While I would agree it makes him complicit, it doesnt make him an actual pedophile.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football."
User avatar
JeffreyMiller
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:28 am
Location: Birthplace of Pop Warner

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Thu May 19, 2022 10:14 am

While I would agree it makes him complicit, it doesnt make him an actual pedophile.


True, but he was an enabler. He didn't care about the victims, and he represented what is bad about the sport. His program left a trail of broken bodies and minds (of females and young boys) because they consider football #1 (a janitor who witnessed one of Sandusky's crimes admitted that. He basically said that he wouldn't say anything because football runs the university. Also, when those rapes of women were going on, someone said that investigations would stop cold if there was suspicion that it was a Nittany Lion football player).
7DnBrnc53
 
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Postby TanksAndSpartans » Thu May 19, 2022 10:55 am

The story by TOM JUNOD AND PAULA LAVIGNE linked above was really well researched. Its long and I strategically skipped paragraphs here and there, but you can tell they put the work in.
User avatar
TanksAndSpartans
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 am

Previous

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests

cron