2023 Hall of Very Good Finalists

[JuggernautJ]

Tanks,
Peggy Parratt was a player and (while I've never seen film on him) was a supposedly excellent one.
He played on at least four teams that won (or were tied for) the Ohio League Championship against such pre-NFL powerhouses as Massillon and Canton.

And Homer Davidson isn't on this years ballot!

Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Parratt

A "Signature Story" excerpted from the Coffin Corner Article by Milt Roberts:

In 1911, Peggy continued to swell Shelby's roster with name players, many of whom
drifted in from schools outside Ohio... Massillon attempted a revival in 1911 and
challenged Canton, also resurging and awakening hopes that the area might again
become a prominent pro football battleground.

Canton handled Massillon's challenge rather easily, but lost their new-found hopes for
the state crown when they forfeited the all-important title game to Shelby, 1-0, after a
heated dispute over an offside ruling.
Actually, Shelby's Parratt was willing to compromise with Canton over the official's call,
but Canton Captain Harry Turner angrily called his team off the field and refused to
continue the contest.

In a post-game statement, Captain Turner told the Canton Repository, "Right or wrong,
no more football for me after this; these old football duds, mud and dirt, go up to the
attic to rot ... I'm done!" Harry Turner made his vow to quit pro football on November
26, 1911. It would have been better for him if he had kept his word. As it turned out, he
wanted so badly to beat Peggy Parratt that he returned to play for Canton for the next
three years. It proved a fatal error in 1914....

Fast forward to:
Peggy really went all out in his 1914 recruiting efforts. Besides the usual big names
from the East and Midwest, he employed several former Notre Dame stars. In fact, in
some of the late season games, the entire left side of his Akron Indian line was from
Notre Dame, including the legendary Knute Rockne. Parratt had "Rock" playing both
end and halfback and teamed with him on several successful forward pass plays during
their title drive. But in spite of their impressive lineup, the Indians lost a shocker to
Canton, 6-0, in a mid-November contest. The date should be clearly marked; it was
November 15, 1914, and tragedy stalked the gridiron.

Canton's popular center, Harry Turner, died shortly after the game, his spine broken
while tackling Akron's fullback Collins, another ex-Notre Dame player. It was the first
fatal accident involving a major professional football team in Ohio, and it recalled
Turner's unfulfilled vow to quit football forever made after the forfeit to Parratt's Shelby
team in 1911.

It was Canton's first victory ever over Peggy's Akron Indians. According to Jack
Cusack, Turner on his deathbed whispered, "I know I must go, but I'm satisfied, for we
beat Peggy Parratt!"

[TanksAndSpartans]

duplicate post

[TanksAndSpartans]

Peggy Parratt was a player and (while I've never seen film on him) was a supposedly excellent one.
He played on at least four teams that won (or were tied for) the Ohio League Championship against such pre-NFL powerhouses as Massillon and Canton.

I know he was a player, just saying I'm not sure whether he was a top player or not relative to his contemporaries based on the methodology I use. My analysis wasn't particularly favorable to John Brailler for example, so I hesitate to make predictions. At the same time, I predicted John Gammons would do well and he did and the comparable player for Parratt's era looks like Davidson to me, so that's another prediction I made, but we'll see.

I mentioned the contributor part because I didn't want to discourage anyone who would vote for Parratt just on that basis - seems like there is enough there, just not how I vote.

And Homer Davidson isn't on this years ballot!

Ha, ha, I know - I still have to weigh him against who's left out there though.

[JuggernautJ]

Ha, ha, I know - I still have to weigh him against who's left out there though.

I'm not sure what you mean by "out there".

To me what is relevant is who else is on the ballot, not who else is in the football ether.
Is Peggy one of the ten "best" choices out of the twenty players we have to select from?
Of course, "best" is a subjective term and can only be defined by each voter.
But I am not (at this stage of the process) concerned about those not on the ballot.
Perhaps there are individuals more worthy of the HoVG than Parratt (perhaps) but, unless they're on this years ballot it is immaterial to me.

Like you (I believe from what I've seen you write) I think there should be more representatives of the "ancient history" of American Football in our hall. In my opinion we don't have enough players/coaches that fall between Heffelfinger and Pollard.
I think Peggy is deserving and that it would honor the history of our game if he were in the Hall of Very Good.
That's my story and I am sticking to it!

But I am done "stumping" for him.
I've expressed my opinion and you and anyone/everyone else are entitled to yours.
For what it is worth, I didn't nominate Parratt but I do hope he is "enshrined."
And unless I have a huge change of heart I will be voting for him and I hope you and all the other voters consider his qualifications and vote your conscience.
That's all anyone could (and should) ask.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Ha, ha, I know - I still have to weigh him against who's left out there though.

I'm not sure what you mean by "out there".

To me what is relevant is who else is on the ballot, not who else is in the football ether.

You knew what I meant - you just didn't agree . Maybe not logical, but the ether concerns me - very few votes go towards early history and even less players actually get in. I listened to a sports talk radio show once and one of the hosts had a vote for some HOF and it required 5 choices (or something like that) so he said he would go down the list and choose the first five he felt were HOFers (implication being he may not even review the whole list). Most callers didn't agree with this, just shows people can vote in strange ways.

@JameisSaintston asked some good questions and I just shared my opinion - ask me again in a year or two, but right now, I'd have to say he probably wasn't an early Friedman. I was glad you presented some counterarguments though - I'm not trying to tank his vote or anything - I may even vote for him even though I didn't in the past, depends on how I evaluate the rest of the ballot. Every year is different.

[JameisBrownston]

To me what is relevant is who else is on the ballot, not who else is in the football ether.
Is Peggy one of the ten "best" choices out of the twenty players we have to select from?

This just seems to highlight a fault in our nomination procedure to me. It is way too prone to simple human error and mind slippage. Every time I mention a player around here who seems to get little traction for unknown reasons, I always get a bunch of replies saying "yeah he could definitely get in soon" or even "wait, I thought he was already in". Yet there's a strong out of sight, out of mind effect around certain players that doesn't seem to follow any set pattern; even super-seniors, who tend to be very popular here in compensation for the HOF's neglect of them, aren't immune (wherefore Red Dunn?). I really don't think there is any particular reason players like Dunn, Carroll Dale, or Clem Daniels don't get in other than forgetfulness, and I wish it was an easy fix. I just dug up Daniels last week, surely there are other easy picks like him that remain outside my field of view. We really just need more active members, I think, or more nominations per member. Maybe nomination for players newly becoming eligible can be automated, so we can save nominations for older guys.

[Bob Gill]

Was he kind of a prototype Benny Friedman? I definitely want to know more about that.

I don't think Parratt bears any resemblance to Friedman at all. In any given year you could probably count all of his completions on your fingers and toes. Maybe he was a prototype of Gus Dorais, though, which wouldn't be bad at all.

[JuggernautJ]

To me what is relevant is who else is on the ballot, not who else is in the football ether.
Is Peggy one of the ten "best" choices out of the twenty players we have to select from?

This just seems to highlight a fault in our nomination procedure to me. It is way too prone to simple human error and mind slippage. Every time I mention a player around here who seems to get little traction for unknown reasons, I always get a bunch of replies saying "yeah he could definitely get in soon" or even "wait, I thought he was already in". Yet there's a strong out of sight, out of mind effect around certain players that doesn't seem to follow any set pattern; even super-seniors, who tend to be very popular here in compensation for the HOF's neglect of them, aren't immune (wherefore Red Dunn?). I really don't think there is any particular reason players like Dunn, Carroll Dale, or Clem Daniels don't get in other than forgetfulness, and I wish it was an easy fix. I just dug up Daniels last week, surely there are other easy picks like him that remain outside my field of view. We really just need more active members, I think, or more nominations per member. Maybe nomination for players newly becoming eligible can be automated, so we can save nominations for older guys.

One fix would be for you to nominate someone you feel deserves consideration.
And then make a case for him in our forum.

I think Tanks was primarily responsible for Tony Latone getting into the HoVG and he did so through persistence and providing accurate and convincing information.

[JameisBrownston]

Is one person's nomination sufficient to put your guy in a prime position to get elected, assuming it's a Carroll Dale kind of situation where there doesn't appear to require any convincing, everyone already seems to think he should be in, and the only reason he isn't is because everyone always forgets to nominate him? Or would more coordination between that player's supporters be needed at stages prior to the final voting phase? What exactly are the steps leading up to the point we are currently at, with the 20 finalists that are narrowed to 10 inductees? That's the only step I have totally nailed down.

[JuggernautJ]

....What exactly are the steps leading up to the point we are currently at, with the 20 finalists that are narrowed to 10 inductees? That's the only step I have totally nailed down.

https://www.profootballresearchers.com/ ... php?t=6122

The Process for HoVG Selection:
1. Any current member of the PFRA may submit (up to*) 5 names in nomination for the HoVG.
This usually happens in April or May.

2. Each Committee member (9) then ranks their top 20 choices of those nominated from 1 to 20. Points are awarded in inverse order. The top 20 vote getters are submitted to the organization as finalists for the HoVG. This is done shortly after the nomination period is closed.

3. The body politic of the PFRA votes, usually by Halloween (October 31st).
They do so by selecting exactly 10 of the 20 finalists for enshrinement into the HoVG.

4. All of those who appear on 55% of ballots are elected, up to a maximum of 10. The minimum is seven so seven are elected even if fewer than seven receive 55% (the next closest vote getters).

*Edited to add the parenthetical text