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Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:00 pm
by TanksAndSpartans
Good points, I’ll take them under advisement. I’d be surprised if there’s any other 4 year period though with those video-game like ypc numbers, and given the focus was on the top 10 rushers (this matches up the best backs against all defenses as opposed to just comparing league averages), I think it lends some credence to the possibility there may have been some inflation in the rushing statistics of the top runners relative to the other league. I switched to the other thread.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 pm
by Rupert Patrick
TanksAndSpartans wrote:I switched to the other thread.
So did I.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:14 pm
by sluggermatt15
JameisLoseston wrote:A couple counter-points:
2015 was Newton's biggest statistical year, but one could argue it's not even his greatest, because in the context of rookie QB seasons his 2011 was utterly historic. I'd give him credit for two truly great seasons.
Second, we can all agree the HOF is terrible beyond terrible at picking QBs, so using "one of the greatest QBs ever" as the HOF criterion is completely fallacious. At lest a few HOF QBs would be quite tough sells for HOVG (which has been mostly excellent at picking QBs), something that no other position can come close to saying. So while we may know better re: Newton, there's no telling whether the fools who inducted Troy Aikman first-ballot will. It's hard to compare the two at this position in particular.
Joe Theismann has comparable credentials to Cam - statistics aside - and he is not in the HOVG.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:25 pm
by JameisLoseston
sluggermatt15 wrote:Joe Theismann has comparable credentials to Cam - statistics aside - and he is not in the HOVG.
Theismann seems like a totally adequate HOVG candidate to me too. On a similar level as, say, Milt Plum, who is also not in but I think both are as good or better than a few who are. Bert Jones too. Other than Albert, it seems short career QBs are having a really hard time, and that doesn't bode well for Cam either.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:27 pm
by racepug
Rupert Patrick wrote:JameisLoseston wrote:Very possible he's done at this point, at least as a productive starter. Sad to see him go, was one of the most unique players of this decade. Does he have a HOF case, if not, HOVG? Or prime just not long enough for a QB? It doesn't seem like Michael Vick is up for HOF anytime soon, for instance.
For Newton, I would say no, and no. He had one big season, other than that MVP season of 2015, his career high in TD passes is 24, only threw for 4,000 yards once in his rookie season although being very healthy until 2019 (only missing eight starts in six seasons, never more than two starts in a season). Except for 2015, his career W-L record as a starter is 53-54-1 in the regular season.
My sentiments, exactly. Plus, for me, his personality is a
total turn-off. If it were up to me, only, he'd never even get nominated.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:16 pm
by racepug
bachslunch wrote:Cam Newton’s definitely not a HoFer as of now. He had one great year (2015j, four years that were varying degrees of very good (2011-2013 and 2018), three just okay years (2014 and 2016-2017), and one where he barely played (2019). By QB standards, his career is short, which doesn’t help. Not so sure it’s even HoVG territory, but perhaps.
Michael Vick is no HoFer, either, and probably nor HoVG either.
While fully understanding that NFL passer rating isn't everything (and I know that for some people, it's "nothing"), despite his M.V.P. season Cam Newton actually finished his career in Carolina (I can only assume that he won't be going back to that team) with a
lower passer rating than Steve Beuerlein and not much better than Jake Delhomme did during
their time in Carolina. As for M.V. - I view him in much the same way that I view Lamar Jackson, now - as an outstanding athlete who can kill you with his legs (if you let him) but as an N.F.L.-grade passer? To me - merely adequate, at best.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:34 am
by sluggermatt15
Apparently New England is bringing Newton back. He didn't seem to revitalize his career last year under Belichick. Maybe they are giving him one more chance?
But I can agree he is definitely not HOF. May not be HOVG either.
Re: Cam Newton
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:17 pm
by Brian wolf
Maybe BB is giving Newton more time to get his arm and confidence back as a starter but last season was bad. I think Newton would be okay as a backup while the Pats bring in another young arm. I really wonder who they might get unless there is someone they are targeting in the draft.
I think Minshew from Jax would be a good opportunity.
I dont think SF will depart from Garapollo