Belichick, Brady and the New England Patriots

[jeckle_and_heckle]

If they are not the best ever, then the best is yet to come.

[Rupert Patrick]

I thought I was watching one of the half dozen most shocking upsets in Super Bowl history, and in the last 17 minutes of regulation, things fell apart. We finally got to see a Super Bowl go into OT, and we also saw a 25-point comeback. Football is a game of shifting momentum, and the momentum shifted in New England's favor, and Atlanta never got it back. When it went to OT, I knew it was over and New England had already won. I don't think it was a great game but it was a memorable game, and will be remembered for the comeback and for being the first OT Super Bowl game.

I didn't do too bad on the Super Bowl prediction - I had New England 38-28, only off by four points.

[JohnH19]

The Falcons still would have escaped with the win if they wouldn't have blown their chance to kick a FG when the score was 28-20. It was an unbelievable game and full credit to the Pats for their comeback.

[Jeremy Crowhurst]

I tend to think that this ends the GOAT discussion for now for QB, and maybe for coach. Hoodie at worst is #2 behind Paul Brown, IMO.

[Jay Z]

The Falcons still would have escaped with the win if they wouldn't have blown their chance to kick a FG when the score was 28-20. It was an unbelievable game and full credit to the Pats for their comeback.

They had a 1st and 10 at the NE 22. You can't not get the FG attempt there. It can't happen. Run more conservative plays if you have to.

It all went south for Atlanta (sorry for the pun) after NE failed on the onside kick. There again they had a first down at the NE 32 and got pushed out of field goal range with a sack. Then the sack-fumble on a 3rd and 1 play, another play that cannot happen. I know a block was missed, but that ball has to come out in that situation. You have to know the game situation.

Matt Ryan had a great QB rating, but he made some critical errors. ATL defense did a pretty good job. Of course they were gassed at the end, NE ran 93 plays to 46 for ATL.

NFC is once again going to be wide open next year as I expect ATL will be dealing with the fallout from this and will fall back. Don't mean to pile on, what a tough loss though.

[JWL]

I tend to think that this ends the GOAT discussion for now for QB, and maybe for coach. Hoodie at worst is #2 behind Paul Brown, IMO.

The era is a concern for me. I was only 25% joking, well maybe 50%, when I made that thread about Cody Kessler having a great rookie season. Brady is great but cornerbacks are hamstrung these days due to the rules. I am still not sure I'd put Brady over Montana, Unitas, or Baugh. I also am not sure I'd rate Brady above Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. There is also Otto Graham to consider.

[Reaser]

The era is a concern for me. I was only 25% joking, well maybe 50%, when I made that thread about Cody Kessler having a great rookie season. Brady is great but cornerbacks are hamstrung these days due to the rules. I am still not sure I'd put Brady over Montana, Unitas, or Baugh. I also am not sure I'd rate Brady above Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. There is also Otto Graham to consider.

I'm more comfortable with Jeremy's Belichick statement than the Brady one.

For Brady, I was just in the process of posting something similar about the era, so instead I'll just say I agree. And add that his early career he wasn't "great" though still had the same team success. He became "great" (individual success) in the 7 on 7/passing league with pads era and in this era he's there with a lot of other guys (Manning, Rodgers, Brees, etc).

If we look at what Brady is the "GOAT" at? Not the most accurate QB ever, not the strongest arm, not the best thrower of a football, obviously not the best running QB, not the best at calling his own plays, not the best ball-handling, not the best throwing on the move of all-time and so on. I would put him on a very short list not for his overall footwork but for his base, at the top of his drop - which he doesn't really have to do anymore since they're in shotgun all the time - and in shotgun. The way he keeps his base, in the pocket or when he resets, it's great.

So when it comes to "GOAT" the basis of that argument for him is essentially strictly championships. Brady is now the "GOAT" of Super Bowl rings for a starting QB. Though he's only just tied Starr for NFL Championships. He's still behind Graham for League Championships. So when we acknowledge that pro football didn't start in 1966 then Brady would also not be the "GOAT" of championships, to-date.

There's plenty more talented, there's very few with as many accomplishments (and it's more what you actually do than what you have the talent to do) so he's definitely on the short-list but he also definitely doesn't stand alone above the other QB's on that list.

It always seems like I like him more than most non-NE fans. Probably because I was a fan of his in college (and wasn't a fan of Henson). Either way, I wouldn't say he's the "GOAT" right now. Plus I'm not big on finalizing a players career until their career is actually over.

[MatthewToy]

Not the greatest. Their first 3 Super Bowls are tainted by Spygate. They were one baffling play call away from not winning their 4th. They have too many postseason losses to lesser teams that other great teams throughout history don't have. They're a very good team that took advantage of a mediocre, parity laden league.

[jeckle_and_heckle]

Even though 7 > 5, Tom Brady is surely better than Otto Graham. How do we know this? Peter King said so.

[74_75_78_79_]

Not the greatest. Their first 3 Super Bowls are tainted by Spygate. They were one baffling play call away from not winning their 4th. They have too many postseason losses to lesser teams that other great teams throughout history don't have. They're a very good team that took advantage of a mediocre, parity laden league.

There's also the fact that ten years elapsed between their 3rd and 4th Ring. Yes, not much of a real run-game or D to speak of in those years which leads me to still keeping Brady joined at the hip with Peyton. With exception to his final year (and, okay, '07 once the playoffs began) Manning never really had that run-game and that shut-down defense simultaneously. Both QBs together have joined Baugh/Graham/Unitas/Montana in my mind (for 100th Anniversary team) but I'll put neither above any of them.