Professional Football Researchers Association Forum
PFRA is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the history of professional football. Formed in 1979, PFRA members include many of the game's foremost historians and writers.
Yes, I read the conspiracy books over the years. By now serious people accept the truth of Oswald being the sole killer.
What do you think about 9/11?
9/11 was pretty obvious.
People who profess to believe in conspiracy usually want the guilty party to be different from the actual perpetrator in order to satisfy their own preferences, political or otherwise. Many people couldn't accept the Communist Oswald as the assassin, wanting it to be a radical right type.
The Russians played in to this with a specialty of theirs--"Disinformation." They started a disinformation campaign it was a "CIA and right-wing plot." Not a few in this country bought it.
If there had been any kind of conspiracy, Attorney General Bobby Kennedy would have moved heaven and earth to find and punish them. RFK sent his own men to Dallas to investigate. They told their boss, "Oswald did it." When New Orleans DA Jim Garrison started his campaign, RFK again sent his men (members of the Get-Hoffa squad) down to New Orleans. They came back saying, "Garrison is a fraud." Garrison swallowed Soviet disinformation hook, line, and sinker.
Yes, I read the conspiracy books over the years. By now serious people accept the truth of Oswald being the sole killer.
What do you think about 9/11?
9/11 was pretty obvious.
People who profess to believe in conspiracy usually want the guilty party to be different from the actual perpetrator in order to satisfy their own preferences, political or otherwise. Many people couldn't accept the Communist Oswald as the assassin, wanting it to be a radical right type.
The Russians played in to this with a specialty of theirs--"Disinformation." They started a disinformation campaign it was a "CIA and right-wing plot." Not a few in this country bought it.
If there had been any kind of conspiracy, Attorney General Bobby Kennedy would have moved heaven and earth to find and punish them. RFK sent his own men to Dallas to investigate. They told their boss, "Oswald did it." When New Orleans DA Jim Garrison started his campaign, RFK again sent his men (members of the Get-Hoffa squad) down to New Orleans. They came back saying, "Garrison is a fraud." Garrison swallowed Soviet disinformation hook, line, and sinker.
Honestly, the JFK assassination isn't something I have looked into that much. Also, I wasn't around at the time (born nine years later). So, I don't have the first-hand knowledge of what happened.
It seems like a lot of crap, but I would read Douglas McIntyre's comment about it in the comments section. He said that the Soviets had a hand in the assassination, and they didn't want people to know because it may have started WWIII.
"We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, and never did. Nobody's yet been able to put him in the building (Texas School Book Depository) with a gun in his hand."
Jesse Curry, Dallas Chief of Police from 1960-1966
There's a lot of flimsy evidence that's been thrown around to try and show that Oswald is the man who killed Kennedy. But there's also been a lot of misconceptions and falsities to try and show that Oswald didn't kill Kennedy. I'll get to both of those points and make the case for why Oswald didn't fire those fatal shots. Lastly, I just want to mention that this post will not cover who I think actually pulled the triggers. If you want the short answer, the CIA killed JFK. I may write out who I think carried out their orders, but it won't be in this post. In other words, that's the stuff people actually care about in the JFK case lol. The magic bullet, the Zapruder film, the Three Tramps, etc.
Anyway, the official story is that Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots from a Carcano rifle on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository in 8.3 seconds. This occurred at 12:30 PM on November 22nd, 1963. Oswald was an employee at the TSBD who had only been hired a few weeks before the assassination. This was laid out by the Warren Commission and is presented in every history textbook. This story is also, complete horseshit.
Also, as for 9/11, I know someone (Mark Passio of whatonearthishappening.com) who says that he can disprove the official 9/11 story by using math equations and weights and measures. Food for thought.
I think Daniel Snyder had something to do with this. He named the team after something Oswald loves, the Commies. And he's killed the teams hopes and dreams for a successful NFL franchise. The President would be childs play for him.
Last edited by Sonny9 on Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RichardBak wrote:Here's a question for all the old-timers who remember that horrible weekend....
Were the NFL games that were played on the Sunday (Nov. 24, 1963) following President Kennedy's assassination televised? I'm old enough to remember most of that weekend, but I don't have a clear memory of the Lions-Minnesota game being on local TV (on CBS) here in Detroit. It seems to me that all 3 networks devoted their entire programming to coverage of JFK laying in state at the Capitol, but I could be wrong. And of course, even if the game was being carried on CBS, they would've cut away early in the game because Oswald was shot on live TV around 1:30 EST.
I haven't been able to get a definitive answer in any of the local papers.
Back to the original question. According to the Pro Football Chronicle, none of the NFL games were televised that weekend, as the networks focused exclusively on assassination/funeral coverage. That helps debunk the narrative that Rozelle made the decision to play the games out of greed.
According to the TV contracts, the NFL got paid whether the games were played or not. Also, attendance figured to be much smaller for the games played that weekend, as opposed to games that would have been postponed a week.
There were probably a good number of tickets that had already been purchased, but the fans chose not to attend and just eat the cost. Teams still got paid for the ticket, but lower attendance meant lower concession sales. I think even in the early '60's, concessions were a decent chunk of revenue.
Jesse Curry was the imbecile who as Dallas Police Chief gave Ruby (Who just happened by. He was downtown to send a telegram) the chance to shoot Oswald by moving him Sunday afternoon instead of 3 in the morning when no one would have been there. Curry wanted to stage a dog and pony show to please the media.
Curry made the above quote when trying to sell a self-justifying memoir.
RichardBak wrote:Here's a question for all the old-timers who remember that horrible weekend....
Were the NFL games that were played on the Sunday (Nov. 24, 1963) following President Kennedy's assassination televised? I'm old enough to remember most of that weekend, but I don't have a clear memory of the Lions-Minnesota game being on local TV (on CBS) here in Detroit. It seems to me that all 3 networks devoted their entire programming to coverage of JFK laying in state at the Capitol, but I could be wrong. And of course, even if the game was being carried on CBS, they would've cut away early in the game because Oswald was shot on live TV around 1:30 EST.
I haven't been able to get a definitive answer in any of the local papers.
Back to the original question. According to the Pro Football Chronicle, none of the NFL games were televised that weekend, as the networks focused exclusively on assassination/funeral coverage. That helps debunk the narrative that Rozelle made the decision to play the games out of greed.
According to the TV contracts, the NFL got paid whether the games were played or not. Also, attendance figured to be much smaller for the games played that weekend, as opposed to games that would have been postponed a week.
There were probably a good number of tickets that had already been purchased, but the fans chose not to attend and just eat the cost. Teams still got paid for the ticket, but lower attendance meant lower concession sales. I think even in the early '60's, concessions were a decent chunk of revenue.
Rozelle received little criticism at the time. Sports Illustrated named him Sportsman of the Year for 1963.
My local high school played a basketball game the Friday night after the assassination. I was there. We held a moment of silence and sang the National Anthem. America was a different place in 1963 from now. The feeling was the way to show respect for JFK was to carry on. By the way, Kennedy carried our town in 1960.
Here's a good piece from the LA Times about the NFL playing that Sunday. It was published to coincide with the 50th anniversary of JFK's death.
The NFL carried on after JFK’s assassination, even as players mourned
BY PARESH DAVE / Los Angeles Times, Nov. 21, 2013
The Los Angeles Rams huddled inside the Dew Drop Inn Tavern. Though less than 48 hours remained until kickoff, the group of about 20 quietly agreed that it didn’t want to play.
The pictures on the television in the bar were more captivating than the potential thrill of ramming Baltimore Colts quarterback Johnny Unitas into the Coliseum grass. Plus, the live programming had no end in sight. Surely, CBS wouldn’t even televise the game. No point in playing.
The players had reached the bar soon after Coach Harland Svare whistled together the team — 37 active players — on its San Fernando Valley practice field. He told them something unbelievable had happened in Dallas. President John F. Kennedy had been shot and killed.
Lamar Lundy, the normally menacing right end on the Rams’ Fearsome Foursome defensive line, was among those especially distressed. Moans, groans and curses popped. A few knees dropped to the turf.
“Some guys showed it emotionally. Some guys didn’t show it,” said fullback Ben Wilson, looking back on that Friday 50 years ago. “But everyone shook their head. That’s the one expression of grief I remember.”
Later at the bar, the Fearsome Foursome swore off playing Sunday. Quarterback Roman Gabriel agreed. But one big problem blocked the plan to postpone the game. The players had no say.
In New York, NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle received call after call from owners. Several thought like the Rams’ crew — they didn’t want to play. At least one said Sunday’s games should go on.
The competing American Football League games and nearly every major weekend event, except for a few high school and college football games, had been canceled. Rozelle diverged, making a decision that would later dog him and remain a major consideration for decades to come whenever unimaginable calamities befell the nation.
The deciding factor for Rozelle was a call that day with the “uniquely situated” Pierre Salinger, according to the book about the 1963 season “Clouds Over the Goalpost.” Salinger, the White House press secretary, said to Rozelle, “Jack would have wanted you to play the games.” U.S. Atty. Gen. Robert F. Kennedy, the president’s brother, had also wanted the games to continue.
By Saturday morning, word reached the Rams. “It has been traditional in sports for athletes to perform in times of great personal tragedy,” Rozelle announced. “Football was Mr. Kennedy’s game. He thrived on competition. We would not — absolutely not — play the game if we really felt it would be showing disrespect.”
Respect didn’t concern the players. They worried whether they could put their hearts into playing. “Sometimes people take the attitude that you have to move on and evidently that’s the view the NFL took,” Rams wide receiver Carroll Dale recently said.
The dullest practice of many Rams careers came Saturday. It was the rare day that the bullying now associated with football because of Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Jonathan Martin disappeared.
The jokesters didn’t rub burning balms on teammates. The rousers didn’t tease players taking it too easy. The kidsters didn’t tap someone’s helmet and then hide. “A football player’s life, you keep it going by laughing, joking and pranks,” kicker Danny Villanueva said. “There was none of that.”
Players recalled arriving like “zombies” at the Ambassador Hotel that night. The few of them who were not watching TV studied together in rooms — since replaced by Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools classrooms.
The Colts and the Coliseum should have been on players’ minds. But, “Dealey Plaza was the center of the world for us for that weekend,” Villanueva said.
CBS, the exclusive NFL television broadcaster, refused to abandon its special coverage of the assassination. Columnists criticized Rozelle for placing the NFL’s business above the nation’s mourning. But Rozelle doubled down as the early-afternoon games began. “Everyone has a different way of paying respects,” he told reporters at Yankee Stadium, where the New York Giants lost, 24-17, to the visiting St. Louis Cardinals. “I went to church today and I imagine many of the people here at the game did too. I cannot feel that playing the game was disrespectful nor can I feel that I have made a mistake.”
The Rams drove themselves to the Coliseum. A few players lingered at the Ambassador long enough to see Jack Ruby shoot Lee Harvey Oswald. Fans at the East Coast games missed it.
Several thousand people called the Coliseum on Sunday morning to inquire about the game and whether tickets remained. About one in 15 complained, a Coliseum official told The Times in 1963. “If we offended anybody, we apologize,” Rams owner Dan Reeves said after attending Sunday morning Mass. “But there can be no disrespect to President Kennedy’s memory when none was intended.”
Reeves offered refunds to fans unwilling to come to the Coliseum, where Kennedy had accepted the Democratic Party’s nomination for president three years earlier in front of 50,000 people.
Two days after his death, almost 49,000 people entered the Coliseum. It was a slightly above-average crowd for the Rams. Four of the six other NFL games that Sunday sold out.
Minutes before the coin toss, few players were energized to play. Kick return specialist Carver Shannon barely found motivation. “Sometimes, the guys today will say we got to win this game for the coach if he’s just collapsed or had a heart attack,” Shannon said. “We had the same feeling: ‘We have to win this game for the president to show him we can carry on, that it’s going to be OK.’ ”
Coming through the tunnel, Villanueva noticed something off. Flags were at half-staff. The band that would typically entertain fans was absent. Cheering fans replaced thunderous applause with “pitter-patter” claps, he said.
The 5-5 Colts scored first against the 3-7 Rams. Fifty years later, players recall fewer details about the game than any other in their careers. Some remembered subdued celebrations. The Rams won, 17-16, because of Villanueva’s 13-yard field goal in the third quarter, a kick that the Univision co-founder had forgotten 45 years later until a nephew discovered a yellowing newspaper.
“We were going through the motions, and I think the game score reflects that,” Villanueva said. The game was the Colts’ third-lowest in scoring during the 14-game season. Players returned home after, eschewing the typical victory dinner and “orange juice,” Gabriel said.
Rozelle eventually regretted forcing the players out there before Kennedy’s funeral. “As I’ve said before, I wouldn’t have played those games if I could make the judgment again,” Rozelle told The Times in 1989 after baseball officials postponed Game 3 of the World Series between the Oakland Athletics and the San Francisco Giants because of the Loma Prieta earthquake.
The criticism in 1963 was minimal — remember the players only whispered their grumbles, said Michael Gavin, author of “Sports in the Aftermath of Tragedy: From Kennedy to Katrina.” But Rozelle’s regret gave more credence to the backlash he faced, fostering a negatively toned mythology around Nov. 24, 1963 that has become justification for post-tragedy cancellations.
To be sure, games after events such as Sept. 11 and Superstorm Sandy had unprecedented safety concerns not present in 1963.
Players’ unions also have increased leverage. “Football was survival for us, and the league had this incredible dominance over us,” Villanueva said. “Players now would make their voices known.”
After Sept. 11, they did. Most owners wanted to play. But players didn’t. “We need to pause, stop, and reflect and we need to grieve,” players’ union chief Gene Upshaw said.
The NFL moved the season back a week. It switched New Orleans hotel room dates with a massive auto dealers’ association convention to move the Super Bowl a week into February for the first time in history.
All of the maneuvering still links back to Rozelle’s decision, said Lee Igel, a professor in New York University’s program on sports and society.
“Leaders today are now fortunate to have had him make that decision, and then reflect on it and be honest in that reflection,” Igel said. “Now, you use sports as a device to get the nation back on track — but after a pause. That’s largely the pattern for the foreseeable future.”
SixtiesFan wrote:[My local high school played a basketball game the Friday night after the assassination. I was there. We held a moment of silence and sang the National Anthem. America was a different place in 1963 from now. The feeling was the way to show respect for JFK was to carry on. By the way, Kennedy carried our town in 1960.
9/11 happened when I was a Sr. QB in High School. On Friday the 14th we still played our game. Had a moment of silence before the game and everything.
Wouldn't have liked that game getting canceled. In current times it seems very unlikely we would have played just three days after.
Though Rozelle regretted his decision, the CBS Network had to be impressed with him showing commitment to their schedule and giving fans an alternative to just staring at news coverage all weekend.