If you think the Pro Football HOF voting is questionable...

[Bryan]

...baseball's "Today's Game Era Committee" (i.e. committee to find recent players who weren't on steroids) just elected Harold Baines and Lee Smith to Cooperstown!

[TanksAndSpartans]

I was thinking the same thing and I haven't really followed baseball for 15 years or so. Baines seems more like a HOVG player and given his position, possibly a borderline one. I read the committee has a lot of former players on it and possibly his former manager? too. I think what tells the story is that when he was on the ballot, he didn't stay on for very long because he wasn't getting the votes. But, you make a point I didn't think about - steroids. I guess if they are serious about keeping PED and suspected PED players out forever, you have to look at the 2nd tier players to represent the era - seems too soon to me to have committees worrying about the 80s though, I felt the same way about Kenny Easley, but I didn't have an issue with the selection in that case - just would have put in others first.

[bachslunch]

Yup, for all the grumbling one hears about the PFHoF selection process, it's light years better than that for the BBHoF.

Will repost here something I wrote up earlier today on the subject.

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So they announced the voting results. Perhaps not surprisingly, Lee Smith was elected. Given the standards so far established by the HoF for relievers, it's not the worst outcome, I guess.

But the big shocker is that Harold Baines also got in. The reaction has been uniformly condemnatory everyplace I've looked, and rightly so. He's the quintessential compiler with Hall of the Very Good level stats. By any standard used, he's a terrible choice. For example:

Black ink: Batting -- 3 (rank 560th), Average HoFer = 27.
Gray ink: Batting -- 40 (rank 655th), Average HoFer = 144.
Hall of Fame monitor: Batting -- 66 (ranking 311th), Likely HoFer = 100.
Hall of Fame standards: Batting -- 44 (rank 121st), Likely HoFer = 50.

Bear in mind that he's a Designated Hitter, not a middle infielder or catcher.

Using BBRef WAR, he ranks 57th among RFs at 38.7. Players in his range include:

Jessie Barfiield. 39.4.
Paul O'Neill. 38.9
Magglio Ordonez. 38.7
Juan Gonzalez. 38.7
Johnny Callison. 38.5
Kirk Gibson. 38.4
Roger Maris. 38.2

All of these players took anywhere from 5394 to 8329 PAs to amass their number. Baines needed 11092 PAs.

Only two RF HoFers are worse choices, both terrible Vets Committee picks, one them courtesy of Frisch: Ross Youngs (32.2) and Tommy McCarthy (16.2). The closest player above Baines is Chuck Klein (37th, 43.6). There isn't a HoFer anywhere near him.

The thinking is that this particular Vets Committee was heavily loaded with White Sox "homers," including owner Jerry Reinsdorf, GM Pat Gillick, manager Tony LaRussa, and 2B Roberto Alomar -- and these folks pushed heavily on Baines's behalf, in the manner of Frankie Frisch from the bad old days of this panel's sustained cronyism. There were 16 committee members, and 12 voters were needed for election. Results:

Smith: 16 votes
Baines: 12
Pinella: 11

None of the other candidates got as many as 5.

[SixtiesFan]

I recall a 1977 article by long-time Sporting News columnist Larry Felser. He told why the Pro Football HOF was by far the toughest to get into. Funny thing, two players who Felser said wouldn't get in eventually did.

[Bryan]

Using BBRef WAR, he ranks 57th among RFs at 38.7. Players in his range include:

Jessie Barfiield. 39.4.
Paul O'Neill. 38.9
Magglio Ordonez. 38.7
Juan Gonzalez. 38.7
Johnny Callison. 38.5
Kirk Gibson. 38.4
Roger Maris. 38.2

All of these players took anywhere from 5394 to 8329 PAs to amass their number. Baines needed 11092 PAs.

Even on that list, it would make some sense that a guy like Gibson or Maris would get in based on their notoriety, or even Gonzalez based on a few big seasons...Baines doesn't even have that in his HOF resume`. I think the NFL equivalent of this would be to find out that Haven Moses made the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

[Rupert Patrick]

...baseball's "Today's Game Era Committee" (i.e. committee to find recent players who weren't on steroids) just elected Harold Baines and Lee Smith to Cooperstown!

I always liked Baines. He was one of those quiet guys who was a very good, steady ballplayer. Long career, but not really a compiler; the kind of guy who was rarely injured so he would put 20-25 HR and 90 RBI up for his team by the end of the season. I agree he is more HOVG, but if you look at his five most similar career players at baseball-reference.com, you have, in order, Tony Perez, Al Kaline, Dave Parker, Billy Williams and Andre Dawson, four HOFers. He only got to one World Series, in 1990 with the A's, and hit a two-run homer in the bottom of the second inning of game three to put Oakland up 2-1, which was quickly forgotten when Cincinnati put seven runs on the board in the top of the third; it was his only hit of the series. I personally wouldn't have voted for him, but he was a favorite of mine.

Lee Smith has a stronger case, and I think an argument could be made for him on the basis that he was one of the best relief aces in baseball for a long time.

I saw the list of those who were on the ballot, and Lou Pinella came within a vote of being inducted himself. George Steinbrenner was on the ballot; personally, I didn't like him, never did, but like him or not, you can't tell the history of baseball without discussing Steinbrenner in depth, and I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. I would definitely have voted for him. The rest of the ballot included Will Clark, Joe Carter, Orel Hershiser, Albert Belle, Davey Johnson and Charlie Manuel, none of whom belong in Cooperstown either.

Is Ted Simmons no longer eligible thru the Today's Game Committee? If there is one guy who I thought should have gone in over the past ten years or so, I thought it would be him.

[bachslunch]

...baseball's "Today's Game Era Committee" (i.e. committee to find recent players who weren't on steroids) just elected Harold Baines and Lee Smith to Cooperstown!

I always liked Baines. He was one of those quiet guys who was a very good, steady ballplayer. Long career, but not really a compiler; the kind of guy who was rarely injured so he would put 20-25 HR and 90 RBI up for his team by the end of the season. I agree he is more HOVG, but if you look at his five most similar career players at baseball-reference.com, you have, in order, Tony Perez, Al Kaline, Dave Parker, Billy Williams and Andre Dawson, four HOFers. He only got to one World Series, in 1990 with the A's, and hit a two-run homer in the bottom of the second inning of game three to put Oakland up 2-1, which was quickly forgotten when Cincinnati put seven runs on the board in the top of the third; it was his only hit of the series. I personally wouldn't have voted for him, but he was a favorite of mine.

Lee Smith has a stronger case, and I think an argument could be made for him on the basis that he was one of the best relief aces in baseball for a long time.

I saw the list of those who were on the ballot, and Lou Pinella came within a vote of being inducted himself. George Steinbrenner was on the ballot; personally, I didn't like him, never did, but like him or not, you can't tell the history of baseball without discussing Steinbrenner in depth, and I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. I would definitely have voted for him. The rest of the ballot included Will Clark, Joe Carter, Orel Hershiser, Albert Belle, Davey Johnson and Charlie Manuel, none of whom belong in Cooperstown either.

Is Ted Simmons no longer eligible thru the Today's Game Committee? If there is one guy who I thought should have gone in over the past ten years or so, I thought it would be him.

Lots of things:

-There's been a good bit of discussion in sabermetric circles about the fitness of closers for the HoF. It's kind of like the discussion of gunners and punters over here. The simple fact is that they accumulate less WAR and generally have it a good bit easier than starting pitchers. The thinking runs the gamut from no relievers belong to only a premium subset belong (Rivera, Wilhelm, Eckersley, maybe Gossage) to sure let's let them in (for sure add guys like Gossage and Smith and Hoffman, if maybe not Fingers and definitely not Sutter). Given that they've already established the idea that such folks have a place in the HoF, Smith makes reasonable sense.

-Pinella actually wouldn't have been a bad choice. His career is long enough to amass sufficient wins and he won a title, plus he has an okay player career as a boost. Managerially speaking, he's kind of like Jim Leyland, who isn't a bad option and surprisingly wasn't on the ballot.

-Simmons is part of a different subset of Vets. He came within one vote of being inducted last time out. Hopefully he gets in next time this group comes up. I think he easily belongs in.

-Agreed, this was a crappy ballot. Pinella got within one vote of enshrinement. If I had a vote, I probably would have voted for Pinella and maybe Smith. Baines is an abysmally bad choice, and he probably got in because he A) had more career hits and RBIs than any other non-PED or ineligible position player, which he did by hanging around forever compiling and playing at just a bit above replacement level for his career (he's kind of a MLB version of Jim Marshall), and B) he had an unusually friendly voting panel of folks with White Sox ties. All reports suggest Baines is/was a really good guy, FWIW.

-I'm dead against the idea of George Steinbrenner for the HoF. By any measure, he flunks the Character Clause test of the BBHoF's bylaws -- though unfortunately there seems to be a double standard here given that folks like Tom Yawkey (virulent racist who set his teams back by avoiding players of color, kind of the George Preston Marshall of his day without the contributions to the game), Bowie Kuhn (lots of underhanded dealings including collusion related issues), Tony LaRussa (benefited heavily from PED-using squads, twice no less, and debunked any use by Mark McGwire when asked about it by the press), Bobby Cox (wife beater), and Bud Selig (steroid apologist turned witch hunter, several questionable financial issues, questions around the 1994 strike) are in while folks like Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Roger Clemens, and Sammy Sosa are getting pilloried for maybe/maybe not using PEDs when there was no policy on the matter. In fact, the trials of Clemens and Bonds on related issues resulted in full acquittal for the former and one conviction for obstruction of justice for the latter that was overturned on appeal. Only McGwire of this group had acknowledged using PEDs knowingly, and his HoF case tanked after his admission.

[NWebster]

I was thinking the same thing and I haven't really followed baseball for 15 years or so. Baines seems more like a HOVG player and given his position, possibly a borderline one. I read the committee has a lot of former players on it and possibly his former manager? too. I think what tells the story is that when he was on the ballot, he didn't stay on for very long because he wasn't getting the votes. But, you make a point I didn't think about - steroids. I guess if they are serious about keeping PED and suspected PED players out forever, you have to look at the 2nd tier players to represent the era - seems too soon to me to have committees worrying about the 80s though, I felt the same way about Kenny Easley, but I didn't have an issue with the selection in that case - just would have put in others first.

Funny in commenting on this on Pardon the Interruption Tony Kornheiser actually used the term "Hall of Very Good", Ken, did we get our royalty???

[Rupert Patrick]

I'm surprised Dale Murphy wasn't on the list of candidates. I would have taken Murphy over Baines, with the back-to-back MVP's, and along with Phil Niekro the heart and soul of the 80's Braves teams, although he had a relatively short career, but I watched him a lot in the 80's and thought he was an outstanding ballplayer and he seemed a good bet for the Hall of Fame during his playing career.

[JohnTurney]

Baines a little similar to Frank Gore...but Gore somewhat more worthy