Boselli 2nd best tackle in history?

[JohnTurney]

https://www.news4jax.com/sports/sam-kou ... ll-of-fame

"No one questions Boselli’s greatness. He’s considered the second best tackle in the history of the game behind Anthony Munoz."

__________________________

What did I miss? Was there a poll? Is there a book, Internet article? I have never seen that except from Pete Prisco who said Boselli is "second best I ever saw".

I am not sure Boselli makes the top 10. The article says "tackle", may mean "left tackle"

I never know if these statements are for local consumption and the author is kind of fudging things because of that and they really don't believe it.

[bachslunch]

Used to be the BS hype was limited to folks posting comments on the web and arguing in barrooms across the country, as well as the machinations of select front offices of NFL teams. No question this kind of stuff is meant to create a buzz, and the thinking is if we say it long and loud enough, it'll become accepted wisdom and propel the guy in. It regrettably worked for Ken Stabler and might eventually work for Tom Flores. So far, sanity has prevailed regarding folks like Jim Marshall and Jim Plunkett despite this.

Really stinks when you see sportswriters do it, though -- and it's not the first time (remember seeing a Tampa sportswriter several years ago shilling for Doug Williams as a HoFer!). Reporters are supposed to deal in the truth, not push agendas. That's what the editorial page is for.

Re Boselli, I think he's got a reasonable HoF argument if you can get past his short career. But a top 10 OT of all time, never mind the second best ever? Dream on.

[bachslunch]

Okay, so let's see who might make my top 10 OTs (pre-two-way) list before someone calls me on it. In no particular order:

Roosevelt Brown
Joe Thomas
Anthony Munoz
Forrest Gregg
Art Shell
Ron Mix
Jonathan Ogden
Walter Jones
Bob Brown
Lou Creekmur
Jim Tyrer
Lou Groza

That's twelve.

Nope, Boselli's behind all of them for me.

[JohnTurney]

Re Boselli, I think he's got a reasonable HoF argument if you can get past his short career. But a top 10 OT of all time, never mind the second best ever? Dream on.

Agree... however, here is what the counter argument is.
"Being in a small market has beaten the team up when it has come to Pro Bowls and All-Pros in their history, and it's now hurting them in the Hall process. "

"The second-best left tackle I've ever watched (Anthony Munoz is the first), a player who had his career cut short by injury, might now be turned into Jerry Kramer."

" Aside from word of mouth, how can you analyze lineman without studying their tape. Is Alan Faneca better than Steve Hutchinson at guard? The tape will tell, not Pro Bowl lists or All-Pro teams.

Make the All-22 tapes from all lineman nominated available for all the voters. Then again, that doesn't mean they will get it right. Just make them do the work."
_______________________

My issue is that while yes, All-Pro teams can be skewed, that does not always mean they are. And in terms of Boselli he wasn't shorted in anyway. I will be posting on my blog about this, but it can be dangerous to ignore All-pro teams in terms of Hall of fame voting. If the standards set at the time are ignored it allows the voters to use anything as their standard. It was this kind of thinking that screwed so many Vikings. They lost 4 Super Bowls and that overshadowed All-Pro teams to the point that 5-time and 6-time All-pro players waited 20, 25, 30 years. Even Alan Page had to wait one year...when many think he was one of top 4 DTs of all time.

So, All-pro teams need to remain in the mix, but it's also fine to add in film study. I challenge people to be able to get access to All-22s pre-2011. It is NOT easy. I have a couple of friends in the league and can get some, but try and get Jaguars All-22 from say 1996. Good luck.

It is also okay to talk to GMs, coaches, players, and to use your own mind, thoughts, and so on. It's far from a science, it's an art.

But to ignore All-Pros could lead to instances of the bad old days when a guy is a 6-time All-Pro and gets passed over for a long time. I fear with Hutch, Faneca, Mawae, etc... it could be a logjam where that happens

[bachslunch]

Agree... however, here is what the counter argument is.
"Being in a small market has beaten the team up when it has come to Pro Bowls and All-Pros in their history, and it's now hurting them in the Hall process. "

I've never been a fan of the small market/big market argument. Markets do not get any smaller than Green Bay in the NFL, yet they have a lot of HoFers, and rightly so. Besides, "small market" is often a moving target bent to suit the point being made.

"The second-best left tackle I've ever watched (Anthony Munoz is the first), a player who had his career cut short by injury, might now be turned into Jerry Kramer."

The obvious question to ask him is "how many left tackles have you seen?" Plus I have no way of knowing how discerning his "seeing" is. Plenty of biased fans use this argument when they're likely spending as much time at the concession stand or ogling the cheerleaders as anything else.

" Aside from word of mouth, how can you analyze lineman without studying their tape. Is Alan Faneca better than Steve Hutchinson at guard? The tape will tell, not Pro Bowl lists or All-Pro teams.

Make the All-22 tapes from all lineman nominated available for all the voters. Then again, that doesn't mean they will get it right. Just make them do the work."

I'm as much a fan of using good quality film study as anyone to help evaluate a HoF case. And John, I feel confident that guys like you and Coach Troup and Ken Crippen and Reaser and Bryan have good powers of discernment. But it's only as helpful as the ability of the film study person to evaluate. How good is he at it, and for that matter how good are any of the HoF voters at this now that Dr. Z is gone? I wonder.
_______________________

My issue is that while yes, All-Pro teams can be skewed, that does not always mean they are. And in terms of Boselli he wasn't shorted in anyway. I will be posting on my blog about this, but it can be dangerous to ignore All-pro teams in terms of Hall of fame voting. If the standards set at the time are ignored it allows the voters to use anything as their standard. It was this kind of thinking that screwed so many Vikings. They lost 4 Super Bowls and that overshadowed All-Pro teams to the point that 5-time and 6-time All-pro players waited 20, 25, 30 years. Even Alan Page had to wait one year...when many think he was one of top 4 DTs of all time.

So, All-pro teams need to remain in the mix, but it's also fine to add in film study. I challenge people to be able to get access to All-22s pre-2011. It is NOT easy. I have a couple of friends in the league and can get some, but try and get Jaguars All-22 from say 1996. Good luck.

It is also okay to talk to GMs, coaches, players, and to use your own mind, thoughts, and so on. It's far from a science, it's an art.

But to ignore All-Pros could lead to instances of the bad old days when a guy is a 6-time All-Pro and gets passed over for a long time. I fear with Hutch, Faneca, Mawae, etc... it could be a logjam where that happens

Agreed with you. FWIW, I think Tony Boselli should be in the HoF, but a top 10 guy he isn't unless someone has good proof otherwise.

My hope is that 2020 will be kinder to the o-lineman logjam going on. There's only one likely first ballot guy that year in Troy Polamalu and there probably won't be much better backlog folks left than these o-linemen. If we're lucky, maybe they'll all get shoved into the other four slots and get elected or something like it.

[Bryan]

TBH, I've heard much more outlandish claims. Boselli was a great LT, and I think in his prime he was regarded as the best of perhaps the greatest group of LTs in NFL history (Ogden, Jones, Pace, Roaf). Its kind of like Sterling Sharpe, where in his prime Sharpe was better than guys like Irvin, Tim Brown, Andre Reed, etc., and all of those guys end up in Canton while Sharpe is left out.

I would cast my HOF vote for Boselli if I had one. He's probably better than some of the current HOF OLs, like Stanfel and Yary.

[conace21]

Boselli became famous very quickly for dominating Bruce Smith in the 1996 playoffs. Boselli was 10 years younger, but Smith was the DPOY.

Calling Boselli the 2nd best LT in history is beyond a stretch. But I could be a little more receptice if it was phrased as "Over a 4-5 year period, Boselli played the position as well as anyone since Munoz."

[Bryan]

Calling Boselli the 2nd best LT in history is beyond a stretch. But I could be a little more receptice if it was phrased as "Over a 4-5 year period, Boselli played the position as well as anyone since Munoz."

I've seen (heard?) people say that Gale Sayers was the 2nd best RB ever to only Jim Brown. I thought Ken Easley was a superior SS to Ronnie Lott and I'd rate only Troy Polamalu as being better than Easley. There isn't really a set criteria for this 'best I've ever seen' stuff, almost by definition.

[racepug]

I saw Ronnie Lott on one of those "Undeniable" shows a few years ago and he, himself, stated that "Kenny Easley was every bit as good as I was. I just played longer."

[Brian wolf]

Easley was a great player with a short career like others.
Ronnie Lott was the greatest defensive player I ever saw. He could have been an All-Pro linebacker if he wanted, much less a great corner and safety ...

Boselli played great as well but could also be overrated. Yes, he played well against Smith in that 96/97 wild card playoff but also had problems the very next week, playing against Willie McGinest and NE in the championship game.
He has paid his dues though and should be in the 2022 HOF class ...