Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

If Otto Graham's AAFC years don't count for this, then why would Joe Namath count? His first four years weren't in the NFL either.

JuggernautJ wrote: So, is this correct?
Namath
Snead
Zorn
Williams

Yes!

Bob Gill wrote:If Otto Graham's AAFC years don't count for this, then why would Joe Namath count? His first four years weren't in the NFL either.

Because if Graham is among the first four, then you can't include Doug Williams...and its more interesting to have a foursome of Norm Snead, Joe Namath, Jim Zorn and Doug Williams.

Bryan wrote:

Bob Gill wrote:If Otto Graham's AAFC years don't count for this, then why would Joe Namath count? His first four years weren't in the NFL either.

Because if Graham is among the first four, then you can't include Doug Williams...and its more interesting to have a foursome of Norm Snead, Joe Namath, Jim Zorn and Doug Williams.

Or, more logically, because the AFL records are considered official by the NFL and the AAFC's aren't?
(Also, for the purpose of this question, number of games played in a season?)

I recall that AAFC statistics are considered official by the NFL (they show up on the PFR player cards which I suspect they wouldn't if the NFL didn't recognize them), but not by the teams. Something came up about Joe Perry several years ago - his 49ers rushing record was broken, but his AAFC yards hadn't been counted. Tough to see the logic since if the team existed, not sure why it would matter which league it was playing in from the team's point of view. If anything, you'd think it would be the NFL disallowing the statistics, not the team.

For this particular question, I think top 5 would have worked or just excluding Graham right in the question and that coming from someone usually on the wrong end of the AAFC discussions.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:I recall that AAFC statistics are considered official by the NFL (they show up on the PFR player cards which I suspect they wouldn't if the NFL didn't recognize them), but not by the teams....

"Pro football records are very much incomplete in that the NFL does not "recognize"
records and statistics from the All- America Football Conference."
http://www.profootballresearchers.org/c ... 07-036.pdf

"One notable difference between the All-America Football Conference and the American Football League (AFL), which merged with the NFL two decades later, is that the records and statistics of AAFC players and teams are not included in the NFL record book, while those of their AFL counterparts are. For example, Joe Namath's pre-1970 statistics with the AFL New York Jets are considered official NFL statistics, while Y. A. Tittle's pre-1950 statistics with the AAFC Baltimore Colts are not."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ameri ... ecord_book

Got it - thanks @JuggernautJ . That makes a lot more sense. I just googled the Joe Perry thing and it was noted that the 49ers were following NFL protocol by not counting his AAFC rushing yards in the team total.

I revise my opinion - @Bryan is correct to include Namath and not Graham. AAFC stats don't count.

You are very welcome.
And thank you very much for taking that in the spirit in which it was intended.

I cheated but looked up the entirely wrong question, "First four quarterbacks who threw for 10,000 yards in the NFL?"

That, too, provided some players I never would have suspected.

This group sends me down many rabbit holes and occasionally ones I dive down by mistake.

The AFL joining the NFL was a merger. The AAFC teams joining the NFL was more of an absorption ...