Red Grange college stats

[JameisLoseston]

Any cfb experts here? I was searching for what we know of Grange's college stats, and the common figures I'm coming across are "3362 yards and 31 TDs". This seems pretty outlandish for 20 games in the 1920s and would likely make him far and away the best player in college football history, over 150 yards and 1.5 TDs per game in an era when competitive games often ended 7-0. Is this just a mythical record, or what is the reality here?

[Bryan]

http://uillinois_microsites.sidearmsports.com/football/grange/grange-stats.html

[Rupert Patrick]

I would have expected sportreference.com/cfb (the college football counterpart to pro-football-reference.com) to have had all the stats for Grange, but they had nothing on him:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pl ... nge-1.html

[JameisLoseston]

http://uillinois_microsites.sidearmsports.com/football/grange/grange-stats.html

I see what's going on, the commonly cited total is counting the return yards for some reason. Weird, but 2000 is more reasonable, about 100 per game. Still amazing for 1920s and the TDs seem correct.

[JameisLoseston]

Also, I'd love to know just what Angelo Bertelli did to win the Heisman in 1943 on just 36 pass attempts and 14 largely feckless rushes. I mean, the stats are posted in full and they are indeed on the edge of absurdity; he is the highest rated QB in major CFB history by an enormous margin. But was he really able to outthrow the entire rest of the NCAA on 36 passes?! Or was he awarded for his efficiency while having (predictably) lower counting numbers than other guys around the league who had 5 times the attempts?

[rhickok1109]

Also, I'd love to know just what Angelo Bertelli did to win the Heisman in 1943 on just 36 pass attempts and 14 largely feckless rushes. I mean, the stats are posted in full and they are indeed on the edge of absurdity; he is the highest rated QB in major CFB history by an enormous margin. But was he really able to outthrow the entire rest of the NCAA on 36 passes?! Or was he awarded for his efficiency while having (predictably) lower counting numbers than other guys around the league who had 5 times the attempts?

He did complete 25 of those 36 passes, including 10 TDs. But I think he may have been rewarded for having two very good previous seasons and for entering the Marine Corps after playing in only 6 games in the 1943 season .

[TodMaher]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... finest.pdf

[JameisLoseston]

He did complete 25 of those 36 passes, including 10 TDs. But I think he may have been rewarded for having two very good previous seasons and for entering the Marine Corps after playing in only 6 games in the 1943 season .

I think there's more to it than that; from what I've seen of passing from that time, over 500 yards and 10-4 TD/INT are pretty good passing numbers for a whole season in the pre-war era. I just wonder if they were in fact higher than all/most of the other QBs that season, or if efficiency got him the nod (and it could certainly be argued to merit it).

[Bryan]

Also, I'd love to know just what Angelo Bertelli did to win the Heisman in 1943 on just 36 pass attempts and 14 largely feckless rushes.

It was a 'lifetime achievement award' deal. He was very good his sophomore and junior seasons, and was called up for military duty partway through his senior season. Notre Dame was either the national champion or in the championship hunt all three of Bertelli's seasons. So you have the best player at the best program leaving his team to join the Marines during WWII...I guess the voters felt compelled to give the trophy to Bertelli. I don't necessarily agree with that line of thinking, but at least Bertelli's story was better than Manti Teo's.

[SixtiesFan]

Also, I'd love to know just what Angelo Bertelli did to win the Heisman in 1943 on just 36 pass attempts and 14 largely feckless rushes.

It was a 'lifetime achievement award' deal. He was very good his sophomore and junior seasons, and was called up for military duty partway through his senior season. Notre Dame was either the national champion or in the championship hunt all three of Bertelli's seasons. So you have the best player at the best program leaving his team to join the Marines during WWII...I guess the voters felt compelled to give the trophy to Bertelli. I don't necessarily agree with that line of thinking, but at least Bertelli's story was better than Manti Teo's.

Until around the 1970's, the Heisman was considered a "lifetime achievement award," or a "career over three seasons award" more than a "best season award."