'84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

BD Sullivan
Posts: 2318
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:30 pm

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by BD Sullivan »

Bryan wrote:I'm guessing the list of teams who lost playoff games despite 250+ rushing yards and 21-3 second half leads is a short one. Good harbinger of future Schottenheimer postseason performances.
Not a perfect match to your query, but only eight teams since 1940 (including that 85 playoff game) have lost after rushing for 250 yards and leading by double-digits at halftime. Interestingly, half of those have come in the past 20 years, with all four games going to OT. Info from pro-football-reference.com:
Attachments
Screenshot 2019-08-14 at 7.03.33 PM.png
Screenshot 2019-08-14 at 7.03.33 PM.png (98 KiB) Viewed 19519 times
User avatar
TanksAndSpartans
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Miami would miss the playoffs the next few (four, actually, as well) seasons.
I repressed this part. This shouldn't have happened to a team with Marino in his prime.
nicefellow31
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by nicefellow31 »

Teo wrote:I remember well this game as it was an NFL Game of the Week and I recorded it when it aired on ESPN, as I was traveling the previous Sunday and didn't watch any game. THe thing I most remember was the Melvin Hoover TD, as he ran between the Dolphins defense and when he scored an angry policeman outside the endzone hashmarks kicked a large stuffed bone that belonged to a dog who was a Dolphins mascot back then (Do you remmber why it was a dog and his name? I think he lasted at least from 1982/3 to 1986). Then barefoot kicker Paul McFadden's extra point was blocked (few times I have seen a kicker more dissapointed).
Funny the odd thing we remember. During the 1991 Houston vs Denver playoff game, I recall Warren Moon slamming a water bottle down after a big play. I always thought it occurred after a John Elway 4th down conversion. A couple of days ago, I saw that game was posted on YouTube and sure enough, Moon slams a water bottle after David Treadwell kicked the game winning FG.
User avatar
TanksAndSpartans
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

Bryan wrote:In 85 postseason, the Browns ran them over and should have won, then the Patriots ran them over and routed Miami. The 'style' matchups were much worse for Miami.
After all these years, I went back to watch the Patriots game. I'm only in the third quarter and I've seen 4 turnovers. A Tony Nathan fumble, a Marino/Stephenson exchange fumble and two Lorenzo Hampton fumbles on kickoff returns. I also saw Dan Johnson (TE) drop a beautiful Marino pass in the endzone and that drive ended with Reveiz missing a 31 yd FG. Sure their defense was typically sub par against the run, but it also seemed like it wasn't their day. I read that when all was said in done, they converted 6 Dolphins turnovers into 24 points.
7DnBrnc53
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:
74_75_78_79_ wrote:Miami would miss the playoffs the next few (four, actually, as well) seasons.
I repressed this part. This shouldn't have happened to a team with Marino in his prime.
Yeah, but no defense and no running game brought that about. Shula's drafting was poor (Lorenzo Hampton, Rick Graf, Eric Kumerow, etc..)
User avatar
TanksAndSpartans
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

7DnBrnc53 wrote:Yeah, but no defense and no running game brought that about. Shula's drafting was poor (Lorenzo Hampton, Rick Graf, Eric Kumerow, etc..)
Right, in '85, they went for a 1st Rd RB in a draft that was more or less RB poor.

I finally finished the '85 championship. NE kept them in it with turnovers of their own and it was actually 24-14 early in the 4th with Miami driving! With Nathan having fumbled and Hampton (the 1st rounder mentioned above) having fumbled twice, they were running Joe Carter who lost a fumble on a pretty nice run. He had better burst than the other backs, but hadn't been used much on the season, so in hindsight its questionable he was carrying the ball with the SB on the line. After that fumble, the team finally quit and NE punched it in to go up 31-14.
sheajets
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:22 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by sheajets »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:Yeah, but no defense and no running game brought that about. Shula's drafting was poor (Lorenzo Hampton, Rick Graf, Eric Kumerow, etc..)
Right, in '85, they went for a 1st Rd RB in a draft that was more or less RB poor.

I finally finished the '85 championship. NE kept them in it with turnovers of their own and it was actually 24-14 early in the 4th with Miami driving! With Nathan having fumbled and Hampton (the 1st rounder mentioned above) having fumbled twice, they were running Joe Carter who lost a fumble on a pretty nice run. He had better burst than the other backs, but hadn't been used much on the season, so in hindsight its questionable he was carrying the ball with the SB on the line. After that fumble, the team finally quit and NE punched it in to go up 31-14.
From what I remember, with the way NE was running the ball on them that day even if they do make it 24-21, they probably get the ball back at 31-21
User avatar
TanksAndSpartans
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

sheajets wrote:From what I remember, with the way NE was running the ball on them that day even if they do make it 24-21, they probably get the ball back at 31-21
I don’t know…. It’s a tough thing to answer like that on the the road when the home team has the momentum. This is what the Pats had done up until that point:

1st Qtr 14 yds, 6 plays, 3 pts
2nd Qtr 66 yds, 8 plays, 7 pts
2nd Qtr 36 yds, 7 plays, 7 pts
3rd Qtr 25 yes, 6 plays, 7 pts

Mostly short drives off Miami turnovers.
User avatar
Bryan
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:37 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by Bryan »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:I don’t know…. It’s a tough thing to answer like that on the the road when the home team has the momentum. This is what the Pats had done up until that point:

1st Qtr 14 yds, 6 plays, 3 pts
2nd Qtr 66 yds, 8 plays, 7 pts
2nd Qtr 36 yds, 7 plays, 7 pts
3rd Qtr 25 yes, 6 plays, 7 pts

Mostly short drives off Miami turnovers.
I guess this is going to be a losing argument no matter what. The Dolphins were briefly down by 'only' 10 points in the 4th quarter, only to turn the ball over and see New England 'punch it in' from 45 yards away to make the score 31-14. Not sure if I follow the logic on that.

Tony Eason had a dead arm and still completed 10 of 12 for 3 TDs...Pats ran for 250+ yards with 40 minutes of possession. Even if you disregard the Patriots scoring TDs and running at will, the most telling aspect of their superiority was how effectively they shutdown Miami's passing attack. The Patriots secondary intercepted Marino and repeatedly knocked down his passes. Just a brilliant gameplan from Rod Rust. Take away the opponent's strength and make them beat you. This backfired in SB XX when the Pats keyed on Payton and McMahon got easy downfield passing yards, but I'm not sure how anyone could have watched the 1985 AFC Championship game and thought the Patriots were 'lucky' or that the better team didn't win.
User avatar
TanksAndSpartans
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 am

Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

Bryan wrote:The Dolphins were briefly down by 'only' 10 points in the 4th quarter, only to turn the ball over and see New England 'punch it in' from 45 yards away to make the score 31-14. Not sure if I follow the logic on that.
Bryan wrote:This backfired in SB XX when the Pats keyed on Payton and McMahon got easy downfield passing yards
Let me help you help with the logic. Miami turned the ball over 6 times and yet was still in the game early in the 4th. I don't think many people were turning their sets off with the score 24-14 and the best QB in the game with the ball and the momentum. Sure the Miami defense quit for good after yet another fumble on that drive, but Miami was clearly the better team (Position by position or on paper, with all their weaknesses on defense, probably half the league was better than Miami, but I'm talking in terms of probability of winning. Miami had just enough pieces in place to win especially in the AFC at this time. They had split with the Patriots during the regular season. If they played 10 times, I think Miami would win the majority). They also had defeated the Bears earlier in the season and if you think the brilliant Patriots game planning (6 fumbles and a Dan Johnson dropped TD pass doesn't involve any luck, I disagree. Teams make their own luck, but it was uncharacteristic for Miami to turn the ball over that often. With the Marino/Stephenson fumble and the dropped TD pass, sometimes it just isn't your day) gave the Bears a better Super Bowl than Miami would have, I think you are in the minority. I understand you are intent on denigrating the '84 - '85 Dolphins for whatever reason but saying the Patriots gameplan backfired in the Super Bowl gave me a laugh. Was there a game where one team was more overmatched than that in the entire decade?

Finally, with regard to those 2 Dolphins teams ('84, '85), in one of the seasons the team went 14-2 with a QB throwing for 5K yards in an era where that wasn't common and lost the SB to a better 15-1 team and in the other season they made it to the AFC Championship where they fell apart turning the ball over 6 times (With a subpar defense that was weak against the run, giving the other team multiple short fields to work on was the opposite of what the Dolphins needed to do. That defense was going to give up yards as you've pointed out (one only needs to look to the Browns game the week before), but with longer fields, they sometimes made the plays needed to get off the field. Otherwise, Miami would have been blown out every week, right?). Back to '85, the team that would have been waiting for them in that SB was, as was typical of the era, a superior NFC team at 15-1. What I'm arguing would have made it interesting this time, was that one loss was to the Dolphins.
Post Reply